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GURPS Elric / Eternal champion

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  • #61
    interesting ...... must think about !

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    • #62
      Hi,

      I've gamed in Stormbringer from first edition through fourth edition, Elric! and now, Stormbringer fifth edition. I've always loved the game as have my friends. Yes, the source material drifted but the basic game is intuitive. The rules are intuitive and thus, perfect for Sword and Sorcery play. Unlike some gamers, I loved its lethality. A character who survived in Stormbringer had cause to boast!

      My only regret was the lack of development and consistent development of the line. We had five editions of the core book but little supporting material such as campaign books, splats and so forth.

      In looking at Mongoose's "secret project" which we all know is the Eternal Champion series, even if they're unable to talk about it at this time, I would think waiting to see what they produce makes the most sense and trying to build and sustain what Mongoose develops through fan material would be a sound idea.

      In a perfect world, Elric of Melnibone is made into a film, Mongoose experiences a spike in attention because of the film and thus supports the line and the fanbase is built and maintained over time.

      One can hope, eh?

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      • #63
        Elric Game system

        Geez I really have alot to think about. I have loved the elric rpg concept since I was 11 that was 25 years ago when I bought chaosiums first edition Stormbringer.

        I like the Elric dark fantasy role-playing concept... but i prefer the CODA ( LOTR) character generation system. d20 combat rules are not fluid but clearly fair.

        Magic system... I loved the rune/sphere system in the Unknown East, but i see merit in the again the CODA system.

        Oh well my two cents..

        Belle

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        • #64
          Theres nothing stopping people using ANY system to play ANY game, but game mechanics should never dictate how the game flows. Its the GMs job to involve the layers in the world around them and be there to make decisions on game mechanics.

          Personally, I love Gurps. Its simple, playable in 5 minutes and you can play without the rules for most things except combat, which can be simplified. D&D relies on its heavy game mechanics to run combat and environmental decisions, which is why moved to GURPS in the first place!

          Gary Gygax himself said... "The biggest secret in RPGs is that the players dont actually need the books to play the game!"

          I stand by that as Id rather involve the players in teh game world than check to see if they manage to remember to take a breath next turn or suffocate for an instant Save Vs Death with a -19 modifier!

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          • #65
            The Sorcerer RPG (specifically: the Sorcerer & Sword and Charnal Gods supplements for Sorcerer), comprise a very inspiring example of what an EC RPG could be like. When I have more time, I can elaborate. Anyone else checked these games out?

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            • #66
              I had some real big fun playing the Stormbringer RPG. Good times. I'd rather see it converted to Rolemaster myself...
              __________
              ~Clangador
              __________
              Another obligatory quote:
              \"The word liberal, like liberty, derives
              from the Latin liber (\"free\").\"
              __________

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Clangador View Post
                I had some real big fun playing the Stormbringer RPG. Good times. I'd rather see it converted to Rolemaster myself...
                Right now its under Mongoose's RuneQuest engine, as is Hawkmoon. MRQ is a nice system with its roots in the original RuneQuest. If you really want to have the Stormbringer feel, Chaosium has released their Basic Roleplaying (BRP) book, which has the most updated rules of their games. BRP is plug and play, you can add or take away rules as you like, and its very closely related to RuneQuest, so they can work rather well together with some tweaking.
                Yuki says, "Krimson used to be known as Kommando, but he rarely uses that name anymore. Sometimes he appears as Krimson Gray as well. Do not be confused, he still loves cats and bagels."

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Clangador View Post
                  I had some real big fun playing the Stormbringer RPG. Good times. I'd rather see it converted to Rolemaster myself...
                  Good heavens yes!!!

                  Dream magic = mentalism
                  Elemental magic = Essence
                  Priestly/godly magic = channeling
                  Ancient Melnibonean pacts - Arcane

                  It fits quite nicely in many ways. Of course, I think that makes someone like Elric who casts all 3 realms and fights well a difficult class to make (as I don't think there are any semi-arcane spell-users), but I guess you could make one. Call it the Dragon Lord or something.
                  "Self-discipline and self-knowledge are the key. An individual becomes a unique universe, able to move at will through all the scales of the multiverse - potentially able to control the immediate reality of every scale, every encountered environment."
                  --Contessa Rose von Bek, Blood part 4, chapter 12

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                  • #69
                    Im glad I found this thread. Ive been an Elric fan for almost 30 years and playing GURPS for about 15. I ran games in the Young Kingdoms using GURPS and it went very well.

                    For the Magic system I tweaked my own using the "slow and steady" rules for enchanting and changing all magic to either Knacks for the one-trick-ponies and used the premise of Rune Magic combined with Ritual Magic for actual Sorcerors.

                    I created two new Magic Skills, Demon Summoning and Demon Binding (both MVH) to reflect that most magic items in Elric's world bore some form of sentience. Most of the rules for handling demons are already covered under the Necromancy College in the Magic book and later expanded a bit in the Grimoire.

                    The biggest thing to change were the actual Colleges - I dropped them completely and forced all Sorcerors to take Meditation and Rituals and Ceremonies as prerequisites (with Magery, of course). This placed a lot of freedom in the hands of the GM and made magic items and spell casting much more rare, and harder to learn. Tomes and Grimoires become invaluable and numerous adventures were created from Demon Binding mishaps! When a player wanted to cast a spell it took time, thought, and none of it was on the fly. The player explained the desired outcome, conducted research into the Multiverse for the correct plane, and started casting. If successful, then the results were up to the GM's interpretation. The more thought the player put into it, the better the results was a simple rule of thumb. Gotta reward good role playing.

                    The players truly appreciated the very rare magic items discovered, had to rely on their wits, and a new respect for casters was created. All-in-all it worked really well and we all had a blast. I havent ran it in quite a while and if I knew where my original notes were I would post them. This is the best I can do from memory.

                    I welcome any GURPS - Multiverse discussions. I also ran a Hawkmoon scenario and an Urlik scenario that were pretty groovy.

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                    • #70
                      After reading many more threads it seems to have run off topic and into a series of comparisons of systems. Far be it from me NOT to run my mouth! As a gamer for almost 30 years Ive played almost everything (that I was interested in) including Men & Magic, Chainmail, D&D (1-3 & Expert), Tunnels & Trolls, Marvel (1-3), DC, Villains & Vigilantes, Rolemaster (ROLLmaster), TWERPS, GURPS (3), Paranoia, Champions, Ardoine Grimoire, Rune Quest (original), Shadowrun, Stormbringer, Elric, Star Wars, Gama World, Vampire, and on and on...any way ... you get the picture...

                      My point is I prefer GURPS over any other system I have ever used just for its flexibility. You really can run any genre and any setting with GURPS and dont NEED anything beyond the core book to do so. While I am a dork and own a bucket of books, I digress...I actually converted every game I was running to GURPS and every one of them ran more smoothly because of the flexibility of the Advantages, Disadvantages, and so on. BAD players will find a way to min-max in ANY RPG and it is up to the GM to reign that in. With GURPS or any other system.

                      Is the system perfect? Hell no. But 3rd edition is close enough for me. Cheers!

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                      • #71
                        fourth edition is a good syntheis of many GURPS adds with some welcome changes ......

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                        • #72
                          I guess we all have our systems we like.

                          I was in high school when the White Wolf monstrosity began, and I have enjoyed it ever since. Between the World of Darkness (ie. Vampire: the Masquerade), the new World of Darkness (ie. Vampire: the Requiem), and various other offshoots (Abberant, Exalted, Scion, etc.), I have found WW to be a simple system to convert to as well. And in my neck of the woods, that is mostly what my friends all play, so we have a tendency, if we convert things, to convert to WW.

                          Having said all that, I also have a couple shelves full of rpg books, and there are merits to must systems, and few that are miserable. Recently I have been playing a lot of Alternity, and while I was a hard sell at first, I have to say that for a class-and-level game (most of which I dont care for), it has some good selling points.

                          I think ultimately what sells a game is the gamemaster. If you hve someone run a great GURPS game, then you like it. If the gamemaster botches the game, then you learn to associate it as a bad game. Kyrinn loves T&T, but I never really was up on it. I loved Rolemaster, but boy have I played in some great RM campaigns, despite the byzantine nature of the system (chartmaster anyone). White Wolf has treated me better than most; the best GM's I have ever had have all been WW ST's, so that has defaulted to my standby favorite. Had all those ST's run T&T, then I am sure that would have been my favorite.

                          With few excpetions, it is not the system that sells us, or even the setting, but the ST who emersed us into their worlds that we remember.
                          "Self-discipline and self-knowledge are the key. An individual becomes a unique universe, able to move at will through all the scales of the multiverse - potentially able to control the immediate reality of every scale, every encountered environment."
                          --Contessa Rose von Bek, Blood part 4, chapter 12

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                          • #73
                            I mostly agree with J-Sun. A gamemaster is in control of your RPG experiences and a good one will endear the gamesystem to you as a player. And if you are not lucky enough to find one, a good set of rules can grow a good gamemaster.

                            A gamesmaster might use a rules system as a basis and can rewrite the system sections that dont fit the game universe. This can be a good or bad thing depending on the experience of the gamesmaster. If we were all expert gamesmasters then every game would be perfect. However, most GM's are not experts and a RPG rules system needs to nurture their development.

                            As a percentage I would guess that the success of most campaigns and adventures relies on 50% gamesmaster skill, 30% rules system and 20% player skill.

                            Firstly, Good gamemasters understand that all players must feel that their characters are unique and different compared to the other players in their group, otherwise they will not enjoy the game and the game will die. This "uniqueness" can be achieved through a difference in attributes, abilities or items so that players always feel like they are contributing to the group in each adventure. Having two warrior characters in a group with one able to do everything the other one can but better is a recipe for disaster. The player of the inferior character will become despondent. This is not so much a problem with new players because they are still marvelling at the experience but as the game continues most players will begin to optimise their abilities, and compare their characters to others. This is the point where an imbalanced rules system will fall over. In fact, it is common for experienced players to constantly re-roll characters until they get the one they want or tweak the points to minimax their scores. Call it "power-gaming" if you will but everyone who enjoys a game will attempt to do it to some extent to feel satisfied. For the sake of enjoyment, a good gamemaster must generally allow this. I have found that a character generation method that includes random rolling to generate minimum scores and then adustment of scores through points satisfies most players and reduces the frequency of this.

                            I bought 1st ed Chaosium Stormbringer when it first came out as my first RPG. I later bought Runequest, AD&D, Traveller and other games. I liked Stormbringer because it was deadly and this coincided with my perception of the Elric books. I also liked the Elan and Allegience system because it gave players a goal and direction. I liked the rolling for race that the later Elric! game dipensed with. IMO I found the combat in Stormbringer and Runequest to be more realistic than other RPGs when I compared it to real SCA sport fighting with sword and shield (eg. more skilled fighters take longer to kill each other). Problem is, it takes ages to resolve combat between heroic characters and this can bore other players. Also, I think Stormbringer and Runequest needed a fate point system to keep characters alive by using the points as "incredible strokes of luck". AD&D was very balanced but while the magic was fun it was not appropriate for the Young Kingdoms. WHFRP had a great profession system but the magic system sucked and needed heaps of GM adjustments to non-fighters to make them worthwhile for players. Rolemaster had some good damage absorption concepts in its armour system but again the magic wasnt right for the Young Kingdoms. Points systems like Fantasy Hero (Champions) and GURPs fantasy seem good at first but force the gamemaster to constantly observe the player's character sheets to make rules judgements on points expenditure and this takes skill and can be tiring and detract from gameplay. My favourite system is C&S 1st and 4th editions however, they are complex rules, and again it takes a lot of work to convert the millieu to the Multiverse. Consequently, I have had to modify all the rules I have used to fit what I wanted and kept in mind at all times game balance and that players need to be unique.

                            Lastly, since gamemaster enjoyment relies on players developing their characters, the GM needs to get the players onside with whatever rules system is to be used. If they are not going to buy the gamebooks they need then a planned long campaign is only going to last a couple of adventures.

                            Anyhow, Im going to checkout this Mongoose version of EC stuff.
                            Last edited by mabelrode; 07-19-2009, 05:36 PM.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by J-Sun View Post
                              Originally posted by Clangador View Post
                              I had some real big fun playing the Stormbringer RPG. Good times. I'd rather see it converted to Rolemaster myself...
                              Good heavens yes!!!
                              Good heavens NO!

                              I'm playing in a Rolemaster campaign right now, and, whilst the system has some good, positive things for it - for a Moorcockian Elric game, it really would kill it stone dead.

                              Rolemaster really does suit a certain type of fantasy, but it would suit Elric in the same way it suited Middle Earth - which wasn't very much. I know systems are very individual things, but Rolemaster's complexities would swamp Elric's subtleties.
                              Last edited by David Mosley; 07-21-2009, 05:01 AM. Reason: Fixed broken 'Quote' tags

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                              • #75
                                Sorry. My enthusiasm was for combining two of my favorite things, like Elric and Rolemaster. But I can see what you are thinking. I also like talapia nad carmel, but not necessarily together.

                                Personally, and maybe it's just because I got used to it, MERP sort of worked for me. Until I readt he stats on Sauron, Gandalf, and the Nazgul. At that point, I guess I started to see the problems.

                                Any time you put stats to a character or book, someone will see a problem. I played a lot of the 4th edition Stormbringer RPG for years, and liked it on the whole, but really hated putting stats to the demons summoned, and really felt there was too much emphasis on demonic summoning, maybe far more than what I got out of the books. Obviously not everyone (ie the writers) agreed with me. I like the new Mpongoose game in that the magic feels more balanced (from what limited exposure to the new game that I have had), but of course there are still always going to be issues. The minute we make a character an NPC and give them stats, someone will disagree.

                                I still hold that, with some work, RM could work for Elric. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I think it could work. But I'm an RM fan. I would also happily adapt it to Exalted. Kyrinn would enjoy playing Elric with T&T. We play what we like, and conform the world of Elric to our vision of it.
                                "Self-discipline and self-knowledge are the key. An individual becomes a unique universe, able to move at will through all the scales of the multiverse - potentially able to control the immediate reality of every scale, every encountered environment."
                                --Contessa Rose von Bek, Blood part 4, chapter 12

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