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Stormbringer RPG opinions.

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  • #61
    I wonder how Mike's experiences with Chaosium fit into events within the company and Chaosium's health as a company?

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    • #62
      It's too bad that Mike has bad blood with Chaosium. These things happen in all industries. D&D "borrowed" many ideas from Mike and even used his characters without permission from what I understand. But back to the original question. I've played Stormbringer a few times and Hawkmoon once or twice. I thought the system was good enough but found that playing with gamers that had never read any of Mike's book didn't work at all and because of that I will most likely never play it again.
      "The world is such-and-such or so-and-so only because we tell ourselves that that is the way it is. If we stop telling ourselves that the world is so-and-so, the world will stop being so-and-so." - don Juan

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      • #63
        Originally posted by SERPNTA1267 View Post
        It's too bad that Mike has bad blood with Chaosium. These things happen in all industries. D&D "borrowed" many ideas from Mike and even used his characters without permission from what I understand.
        The Chaosium/TSR thing has been discussed a lot elsewhere on the site, so a Search for 'Chaosium' should turn up all the relevant details (as well as a few myths, which I've been guilty of spreading inadvertantly). The good news is that with Mongoose being the current licensees for the Elric & Hawkmoon RPGs, we can put all that other stuff behind us.

        On the matter of TSR's "borrowings" though, they did have Mike's permission to use the Elric characters in the Deities & Demigods rulebook, just as he had given Chaosium permission to use them as well. Chaosium complained to TSR that they were given permission first and therefore TSR was infringing their rights, but reached a compromise whereby an acknowledgement of thanks was given inside Deities in return for the use of the Melnibonéan and Cthulhu mythos. However, one of the TSR directors decided he didn't want to give publicity to a rival RPG company and ordered the material be removed. Ironically, the acknowledgement remained in Deities for a couple of printings afterwards, so Chaosium continued to get a credit even though there was no longer any Chaosium-related material in the manual.

        Originally posted by SERPNTA1267 View Post
        But back to the original question. I've played Stormbringer a few times and Hawkmoon once or twice. I thought the system was good enough but found that playing with gamers that had never read any of Mike's book didn't work at all and because of that I will most likely never play it again.
        You might like to check out Scales of the Multiverse then, which is this site's own forum-based Multiverse rpg.
        _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
        _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
        _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
        _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by David Mosley View Post
          The Chaosium/TSR thing has been discussed a lot elsewhere on the site, so a Search for 'Chaosium' should turn up all the relevant details (as well as a few myths, which I've been guilty of spreading inadvertantly). The good news is that with Mongoose being the current licensees for the Elric & Hawkmoon RPGs, we can put all that other stuff behind us.
          Don't be too hard on yourself. a) the myths surrounding Deities and
          Demigods precedes any discussion of it here, and still seems to get tossed
          around quite a bit, and b) if that is the only thing you can ever be accused
          of, you've led a pretty saintly life :)

          On the matter of TSR's "borrowings" though, they did have Mike's permission to use the Elric characters in the Deities & Demigods rulebook, just as he had given Chaosium permission to use them as well. Chaosium complained to TSR that they were given permission first and therefore TSR was infringing their rights, but reached a compromise whereby an acknowledgement of thanks was given inside Deities in return for the use of the Melnibonéan and Cthulhu mythos. However, one of the TSR directors decided he didn't want to give publicity to a rival RPG company and ordered the material be removed. Ironically, the acknowledgement remained in Deities for a couple of printings afterwards, so Chaosium continued to get a credit even though there was no longer any Chaosium-related material in the manual.
          Actually, in one printing, the table of contents still had reference to the
          Melnibonean and Cthulhu mythos, and the page numeration fit with the
          TOC and those chunks of text just yanked out (the pagination skipped).
          I believe I have the original with the material, as well as a version without
          but with the original TOC and pagination.

          Ian
          Diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to
          go to hell so that they will look forward to
          making the trip.

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          • #65
            I have never actually played Stormbringer. I just thought I would pop in and give you a sad story.
            Years ago. I bought a first edition hardcover of it. Never played it and only skimmed through it once in a while to pull stuff out for my D&D games. Loaned it to a buddy and it disapeared for years. Finally got it back from my buddy and within a week, my dog had gotten it off of my shelf and chewed it up.
            Yeah, I was pissed. Saw this thread and it reminded me of that. Thanx.

            Comment


            • #66
              Maybe I can offer you some comfort.

              It wasn't a first edition, if a hard cover. Stormbringer 1st Ed was a boxed set with a softcover rulebook.

              The hard cover was produced by Games Workshop around 1987; it was okay, but not brilliant. It also had a habit of the binding crumbling and scattering the pages everywhere not that long after buying it, so, chances are, it would have died on you anyway...!

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Lawrence Whitaker View Post
                Maybe I can offer you some comfort.

                It wasn't a first edition, if a hard cover. Stormbringer 1st Ed was a boxed set with a softcover rulebook.

                The hard cover was produced by Games Workshop around 1987; it was okay, but not brilliant. It also had a habit of the binding crumbling and scattering the pages everywhere not that long after buying it, so, chances are, it would have died on you anyway...!
                Ahh, thats the one I had. Damn them for thier sucky bindings back in those days. It was the principle and irony of it that bothered me the most.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by EVIL INC View Post
                  Originally posted by Lawrence Whitaker View Post
                  The hard cover was produced by Games Workshop around 1987; it was okay, but not brilliant. It also had a habit of the binding crumbling and scattering the pages everywhere not that long after buying it, so, chances are, it would have died on you anyway...!
                  Ahh, thats the one I had. Damn them for thier sucky bindings back in those days. It was the principle and irony of it that bothered me the most.
                  All my GW hardbacks from the mid- to late-'80s are fine, I have to say.


                  Anyway, you can see the various different Stormbringer RPG editions (covers only) in the Image Hive.
                  _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                  _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                  _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                  _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Lawrence Whitaker View Post
                    Maybe I can offer you some comfort.

                    It wasn't a first edition, if a hard cover. Stormbringer 1st Ed was a boxed set with a softcover rulebook.

                    The hard cover was produced by Games Workshop around 1987; it was okay, but not brilliant. It also had a habit of the binding crumbling and scattering the pages everywhere not that long after buying it, so, chances are, it would have died on you anyway...!
                    Ah yes, the "Duct-tape" edition. I remember it well...
                    Yuki says, "Krimson used to be known as Kommando, but he rarely uses that name anymore. Sometimes he appears as Krimson Gray as well. Do not be confused, he still loves cats and bagels."

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      All my RPG`s tend to get well-loved, and thus rather dog-eared. Just picked up a copy of Geist: the Sin Eaters, and lamented to my friends that my copy had a scratch on it. They looked at me funny and then one said, `Do you have any ROG`s that aren`t worn out within a few weeks?` Good point. The scratch aint that big a deal. It`ll be far worse than that one day.
                      "Self-discipline and self-knowledge are the key. An individual becomes a unique universe, able to move at will through all the scales of the multiverse - potentially able to control the immediate reality of every scale, every encountered environment."
                      --Contessa Rose von Bek, Blood part 4, chapter 12

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                      • #71
                        Dismayed

                        I have a very healthy respect for the property rights of MM. I still haven't fully grasped all that transpired. I will say this I have all five editions of Stormbringer and Elric! I am an avid fan .... at 39 I still hunt down bits and scraps of games floating out there in the internet.

                        I have so many questions I would like to put to the game designers. But, considering the situation described I am reluctant. I am taken by surprise about Chaosium's reputation.... and wondered why it was a company in decline. I guess you guys have shed some light on that.

                        Presently being retired I have the time now to entertain the Idea of drafting my own BRP based ruleset synthesizing the several makeovers and such. Sdaly it is a game setting that no one has seen fit to follow through with. I hope Mongoose does it justice.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Kommando View Post
                          Originally posted by Lawrence Whitaker View Post
                          Maybe I can offer you some comfort.

                          It wasn't a first edition, if a hard cover. Stormbringer 1st Ed was a boxed set with a softcover rulebook.

                          The hard cover was produced by Games Workshop around 1987; it was okay, but not brilliant. It also had a habit of the binding crumbling and scattering the pages everywhere not that long after buying it, so, chances are, it would have died on you anyway...!
                          Ah yes, the "Duct-tape" edition. I remember it well...
                          One of the reasons, you as a buyer should have a thread sewn binding. Admittedly, it raises the cost of the binding, but I don't think as much as you would think. There is meant to another method called purr binding as good as thread sewing. Not quite sure if it is. I would prefer to have the thread myself. It is unlikely to feature in both cased work these days as the publishers (or retailers) drive the costs down.

                          I did like Elric RPG, but it was a bit too brisk and you could not really roll up a strong character, just to survive. It also didn't help that the PCs had not read any Elric books , so they weren't that interested in adventuring in the Young kingdoms.
                          Papa was a Rolling Stone......

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                          • #73
                            You know, Mr Moorcock could write his own game supplements sans rules. There's no reason why he couldn't do his own version of a Young Kingdoms Gazetteer or other books that provide information on what the author actually had in mind when he created these imaginary places. He could write all the "fluff" (for want of a better word) while the individual gamers added their own system to suit themselves. This way Michael Moorcock makes all the money on his own intellectual property and his fans get all the minutiae they need to have a great game. Everybody wins (except Chaosium).

                            Just a thought.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by by_the_sword View Post
                              There's no reason why he couldn't do his own version of a Young Kingdoms Gazetteer or other books that provide information on what the author actually had in mind when he created these imaginary places.
                              Except...

                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
                              You've come to the wrong bloke, pard. I don't do world building. I tell stories. The places exist because they serve the narrative. I don't sit about drawing maps and working out the GNP of Melnibone. Indeed, I'm rather inclined to consider that the death of imagination. I've no objection to others spending their time doing that, of course, and I understand its fascination, but maybe there's someone else here who can give you a more positive and helpful answer. :)
                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
                              Well, I find world-building as such boring. I've created suburbs of London as well as whole worlds, but I find the creation of languages, religions and so on pretty boring -- a sort of crossword puzzle sort of activity. Now I know a lot of people get their relaxation from doing this, as well as reading Agatha Christie novels, and I have ways of getting my own relaxation which no doubt wouldn't appeal to them, so I'm not condemning it, just saying I don't have much interest in it myself.

                              I usually create enough of a world to form the background for a good story. For me story-telling is the main interest. I wish I could tell people what the GNP of Argimiliar is, but sadly I can't. I prefer the worlds I write about to have a bit more mystery to them, I suppose.

                              So my advice to anyone who doesn't want to get bogged down in the political history of Mumpoobumpoo, is just get on with telling the story. Make the places, like the weather, carry the story forward or reflect the characters' moods and ideas, but just keep telling the story. All that other stuff is what you do when you haven't got a story to tell!
                              Neat idea otherwise.
                              Last edited by David Mosley; 06-09-2010, 04:42 PM.
                              _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                              _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                              _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                              _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Thanks for the quotes David Mosley.

                                Those things that Michael Moorcock recommends doing, are what a GM should do.

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