Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to Moorcock's Miscellany

Dear reader,

Many people have given their valuable time to create a website for the pleasure of posing questions to Michael Moorcock, meeting people from around the world, and mining the site for information. Please follow one of the links above to learn more about the site.

Thank you,
Reinart der Fuchs
See more
See less

Stormbringer RPG opinions.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Well do think they could make a decent one. And would the public bite is the question. I mean how popular was the first one? I'm thinking they should make a console game, which would probably be fairly popular....

    Comment


    • #32
      amateurs say that the work of Mangoose on Gloriantha and the runequest system is more thant decent !

      No d20 system but rewriting the old runequest system.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Morgan Kane
        amateurs say that the work of Mangoose on Gloriantha and the runequest system is more thant decent !

        No d20 system but rewriting the old runequest system.
        Of course, the question becomes, since Mongoose acquired the licensing for Runequest from Chaosium, did they also get any rights to Stormbringer in the deal? In danger of refanning the flames, I do know that with the transfer of Runequest from Chaosium to Mongoose, several designers of the game system were left out of the credit-where-credit-is-due department.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by SuperPheemy
          Of course, the question becomes, since Mongoose acquired the licensing for Runequest from Chaosium, did they also get any rights to Stormbringer in the deal? In danger of refanning the flames, I do know that with the transfer of Runequest from Chaosium to Mongoose, several designers of the game system were left out of the credit-where-credit-is-due department.
          Mongoose got RuneQuest from Greg Stafford, not Chaosium. Chaosium gave
          it up to Avalon Hill, who in turn was absorbed by Hasbro. Hasbro let the rights
          slip (expired, not sure they really cared though), and Greg got them back.

          The Chaosium/Mongoose deal for the Eternal Champion seems to be unclear
          at this point - there has been no official word on whether it was an outright
          sale/transfer, or a sublicense. Once Mike has the OK to provide details, or
          Chaosium or Mongoose spill the beans, all we acn do is speculate.

          Ian
          Diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to
          go to hell so that they will look forward to
          making the trip.

          Comment


          • #35
            I hope Mongoose have gone through the proper channels and everything is cleared by Mike.

            Not sure on the exact details but I believe that Greg Stafford formed a company called Issaries when he re-acquired the Runequest rights from Hasbro, and published Runequest stuff under the Issaries label through Steve Jackson Games until Mongoose picked it up.

            Comment


            • #36
              I haven't played Stormbringer for over 15 years and I'm interested to read all the problems Mike has had with Chaosium (I had no idea), who have to be one of the oddest gaming companies of all time. On the one hand they have probably the finest RPG of all time with CofC and have produced some amazing adventure/suppliments for it, yet they habitually let all these great product go out of print for years, although many of these same suppliments go for £50+ on Ebay! I would have thought that they might be more eager to make some money for themselves!

              Anyway, apart from two linked modules written by Ken Rolston I've never been impressed with any of the supliments that Chaosium produced for Stormbringer. All the Stormbringer Companions seemed to have were glorified dungeon bashes. Personally I hope Mike gets the gaming rights to Elric and can find a decent home for it soon.

              While I've got some great memories of GMing Stormbringer, the system always had its problems. It was incredibly unbalanced and required almost constant fudging my the GM just to keep the characters alive. There was almost no attempt by the game designers to moderate the extremes of character generation. It was as easy to roll-up a limbless blind beggar (appologies to any limbless blind beggars reading(?) this) as it was a priest who could summon the gods of chaos. This inequality of power might roughly be in line with the world depicted in Mikes books but hardly made for a very playble game.

              I remember GMing one of the first scraps the great module Stealer of Souls (written by Ken Rolston), only to have my players cut up in seconds due to a few flukey criticals rolled on my part. The BRP system, although highly playable, was, in fairness, showing its age back in the late 80s. While I haven't seen an edition of Stormbringer for years, I doubt it has changed that much, as Chaosium are hardly known for their complete overhalls of their gaming systems. I think they are just lazy.

              The magic system was also limited and somehow turned summoning a demon into a way for players to manufacture a score of overpowerful demon weapons and armour, with little of the risks that I imagine such an activity would really offer a young mage. I think Stormbringer's magic system should have taken a leaf or two out of CofC's book.

              Anyway, it's been nice to think back on those happy days when a scrap of paper, a badly bound book and a handful of dice would keep me ammused for hours, even days at a time.
              forum

              1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
              2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
              3. a public meeting place for open discussion

              Comment


              • #37
                I agree with the unbalanced side of the game and the limitations on magic, far from Elric books in spirit......

                As a GM, i don' t hesitate to fudge the dices when PC are too much unlucky ....

                Comment


                • #38
                  Magic had huge improvements in the 4th edition of the game (second one in french), and allows GM to create demons with a lot of options. It also makes it harder and more dangerous for a socerer...

                  Main interest is magic is only invocations. No spells or illusions, which was changed with Elric! RPG unfortunatelly in my concern. Probably my favourite. Characters chance to survive are less depending on the game system than the universe itself. On this point, I made a lot of changes, considering that it is, well, the Multiverse and I provide an alternative version of the Young Kingdoms to my players. For example, melnibonean lives like gipsies, Pan Tang are just pirates trying to survive on a desert and volcanic island, etc.
                  Free the West Memphis Three

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mespheber View Post
                    On this point, I made a lot of changes, considering that it is, well, the Multiverse and I provide an alternative version of the Young Kingdoms to my players. For example, melnibonean lives like gipsies, Pan Tang are just pirates trying to survive on a desert and volcanic island, etc.
                    Sounds like you ran some interesting campagns.
                    forum

                    1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
                    2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
                    3. a public meeting place for open discussion

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Players don't complain until now.
                      Free the West Memphis Three

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Morgan Kane View Post
                        I agree with the unbalanced side of the game and the limitations on magic, far from Elric books in spirit......

                        As a GM, i don' t hesitate to fudge the dices when PC are too much unlucky ....
                        ???? The saga presents a very unbalanced view of things. Melniboneans are
                        significantly superior to the rest of the Young Kingdoms, even without
                        sorcery. And sorcerors are mightily feared. However, Elric! and Stormbringer
                        5th brought more balance to the game (for better or worse).

                        Though the magic system relied too heavily on demon summoning, the
                        spells presented in Elric! and Stormbringer did not do much to fix it. A
                        combo of both is a much better fit. The Elric! supplement Bronze Grimoire
                        added more spells, many either pulled straight from the saga or with a
                        slightly better feel. The combined lists need to be pared down, and more
                        spells with saga like flavor written up. But I agree, there needs to be a cost
                        associated with sorcery - CoC's Sanity is a good place to start, but
                        Corruption from the Corum supplement, or from Mongoose's Lankhmar, takes
                        it even further. Again, the veriosn drafted by the Mongoose writer should
                        include this fix, as well as more Eternal Champion style adventuring.

                        Greg's Issaries indeed took back RuneQuest, but only used Glorantha. He used
                        a new system called Hero Wars. Now, with the deal with Mongoose (RuneQuest)
                        and a deal with Moon Design Publications (HeroQuest - the new version of
                        Hero Wars), Issaries (and Greg) publishes non system specific writings for the
                        most part.

                        Ian
                        Diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to
                        go to hell so that they will look forward to
                        making the trip.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Supporting products

                          I couldnt find the link listed above to read the news of Chaosium and Michael. I always thought Michael supported Chaosium, even over TSR which published his work in their "Deities..." book.

                          I have a copy of Stormbringer from 1982 and some scenarios. I play a similar(better) rules system( C&S 4th) but use the Chaosium info as a guide. I tried playing a D20 style game with AD&D's product but it didnt feel right. The fights in the stories were more personal and both Chaosium's and C&S both provided that personal feel. But I converted to the C&S system because it simulates the battles in the stories even better and provides a more enjoyable game.

                          hmm...I thought I was supporting Moorcock when buying those chaosium products.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            You are. It is a shame that none of these companies gave the right retribution to Mike and still don't, however many of my players decided to read his books after playing with me. So they may not buy the game, but at least they bought the stories and Mike's books.
                            Free the West Memphis Three

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by mabelrode View Post
                              I couldnt find the link listed above to read the news of Chaosium and Michael. I always thought Michael supported Chaosium, even over TSR which published his work in their "Deities..." book.
                              Ah, the old Chaosium/TSR thing, eh?

                              These comments might be useful:

                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock (05-25-2004)
                              Chaosium and I are scarcely speaking, I fear.
                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock (07-07-2004)
                              My problem with Chaosium is not lack of interest -- after all I have written one game with Silverheart -- but frustration with those who altered the goal posts whenever I've tried to deal with them. Seems they're doing it again. The whining seems to have come all from that end. For some reason they seem willing to take any liberties they like with my material, not inform me of having taken those liberties, and then want my approval as well. I'm familiar with that kind of argument. It reminds me of the very close 'Nice TV, man,' from the guy who is just about to run down the fire escape with your new TV. But I swore I wouldn't mention that bugger again... :)
                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock (12-01-2004)
                              When gaming first started, it was a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs. Both Chaosium and D&D asked me if they could use Elric in their games. In the spirit of the times I said 'Sure, go ahead'. There wasn't any discussion of rights or money at the time. Then the things started to make money and Chaosium sued D&D over Elric, in spite of the fact I'd allowed both to do what they wanted to do with him! So that's why Elric was dropped from D&D and only appeared in the first book. The situation was then formalised somewhat with Chaosium, who have remained notoriously bad at paying anyone, including me. I came across some old correspondence recently which reminded me how Chaosium have not kept their word on a single matter. Ultimately, this will have to be sorted out. The problem with lawsuits and such is that they take up so much time. In the past it has been easier to ignore much of this and spend the time and energy writing a new book, but that situation can't be allowed to continue for much longer.
                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock (01-05-2005)
                              I have not, for many, many years had so much as a royalty statement from Chaosium. They have put out books bearing the names of my characters and have not even had the courtesy to send copies of these.
                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock (01-22-2005)
                              As I said, I let both D&D and Chaosium have the rights, when the idea of making commercial capital wasn't very high on my agenda. I now wish I'd stepped in and let D&D have the rights, since essentially they made better use of the character. In my view.
                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock (08-10-2005)
                              Should point out that a contract of sorts WAS done with Chaosium, but they have consistently failed to send me updates, check updates with me or otherwise keep me in the picture and have used sophistry in response to every attempt we have made to get them to improve matters. Some of this was evident in an exchange at MWM a while ago, where Chaosium claimed wide-eyed to have tried everything to please me. Presumably by doing nothing about what I said displeased me... :) They have a dire reputation everywhere, especially in the Bay area.
                              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock (08-31-2006)
                              I gather I'm not the only person to have trouble with Chaosium. They have done little to honour the spirit of an agreement which essentially was made many years ago before RPG was big business. Around the same time I was asked by D&D if they could also use my characters and concepts and, as with Chaosium, I said 'sure'. It was as simple as that. The next thing I know is that Chaosium is threatening to sue D&D, who backed off (which is why the Elric mythos is only in the first D&D book).
                              Chaosium have not paid any royalties for many, many years and every time we attempt to straighten things out with them they essentially begin changing the goal posts. A classic trick of a dodgy company. I do intend to take action eventually, but up to now have preferred to spend my time writing books rather than pursuing a court case. However, steps are being taken. Meanwhile, it's not the fault of gamers that Chaosium are crooks, though the more stuff they can buy second hand, the less it will put money into their coffers. Eventually we hope to re-do the games and I will have more input.
                              Note, many of these quotes (sourced by Searching for Posts containing "Chaosium" by Mike on these forums) date back a few years, and the fact that it looks like there's a new EC RPG coming out in due course, may (or may not) mean that some (or none) of Mike's issues with Chaosium have been resolved (or not as the case may be). So, I don't wish to stir up any hornets nest by posting the quotes above, just pointing out that this is what Mike has posted in the past.
                              _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                              _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                              _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                              _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Mike was corrected regarding the Chaosium/D&D Deities and Demigods
                                snafu.

                                When the Deities books was written and released, Chaosium did make a stir
                                about it. However, an amicable solution was agreed upon by the author and
                                Chaosium - the book could be published as long as there was some acknowledgement
                                in the book regarding Chaosium (also note - this involved the Cthulhu Mythos
                                as well, not just Elric). The second orinting contained a thanks to Chaosium,
                                but then the Blom brothers (who ran TSR at the time) decided against the
                                agreement, and yanked both Cthulhu and Melnibonean mythos out of the
                                third printing (whose pages were never renumbered). It was all redone when
                                the book became Legends and Lore.

                                This info comes pretty much straight from the author of Deities and Demigods.
                                And it is summarized in a wikipedia entry:

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deities_and_Demigods

                                Please stop spreading false info about this David, I have corrected it here
                                before.

                                Ian
                                Diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to
                                go to hell so that they will look forward to
                                making the trip.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X