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Progress on the Elric Blockbuster

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
    The second movie would incorporate story elements from
    books like Sailor on the Seas of Fate
    If Sailor on the Seas of Fate is adapted, it'd be interesing to see how the elements concerning the 'Eternal Champion' and the 'Four who are One' will be executed.

    I wonder how the movie critics will take to a fantasy film where the Hero is a sickly albino with an evil sword and a penchent for killing friends and loved ones no matter how accidentally.

    Comment


    • #17
      I suspect that if characters like The Crow and Angel and other anti-heroes and anti-heroines work, Elric will work okay. As I like to say --
      context is everything. That's why a good actor is required for the role.
      Elric's 'redemption' ends with his getting killed, which I suspect will also satisfy the less imaginative 'moralists' amongst critics. Also, he's not exactly having fun most of the time he's killing those people, is he ? And it's only really in Stormbringer that the sword starts turning on sympathetic characters. I think we can do it okay.

      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

      Comment


      • #18
        I'm going to post something on movie making in general.

        I'll be back later.... under construction..... !
        \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
        Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

        Comment


        • #19
          I don't really know why there seems to be a hang-up on the Lord of the Rings issue. I personally liked the movies. They were entertaining. I read the books a long time ago, and again last year while I was deployed in Iraq. They're ok. I read a Terry Brooks novel, too. He's quickly approaching the level of completely unreadable to me. Mind numbing boredom might be more appealing, next time. I even read some Avatar triology a kid had. Not bad that. Also read Wuthering Heights, again. Like that, too. I watched Notting Hill with my significant(ly :P) other. I guess what I'm getting as is I don't find one book or movie I've enjoyed relavant to another. LoTR never crossed my mind the first time I read MM. Nor should it. I liked Notting Hill, but I don't base every movie filmed in England off of it simply because it's Brittish. Maybe that will be the case at first with mainstream audiences. However, the movies should stand alone once seen. They are nothing alike, save they dwell within the same city walls (fantasy). Hopefully that can be remedied with more movies that are accepted as good movies instead of as a genre. Anyway, I'm done rambling.

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          • #20
            Good points, Rekk!

            Ok I need to get off this damned computer! So I must do as I said,
            am going to write about movie-making...

            First I am going to mention Advanced Statistics! Ok, hold your horses, let me explain...

            As part of my studies in psychology, I took an Advanced Statistics class. It's basically an introduction to and application of ANOVA-- Analysis of Variance. The instructor said ANOVA was used in studying movies. The researchers asked: "What is it about movies that attracts the audience?" Ultimately they are interested in maximizing the money-making effect that movies have. So they ask, "Do people go to the movies because they are attracted to: the actors? Action? Special effects? Romance?"
            They can find out by surveying the audience, and they can extract data from them. The factors mentioned can translate into variables of a mathematical equation. These variables can be: w = Big-Star Romance, x = Special Effects, and y = Action/ excitement. (I can't get too in depth about this, cuz I took this class years ago, and don't use statistics in my current line of work.) Anyway, ANOVA was/ is/ can be used in movie-making in order to maximize profits. Big movies is business, you know. So to a certain degree, the "artistic element" is diminished nowadays. It is probably because of these statistical researches that movie studios make certain demands that they do, in order to "reduce the risk" and maximize the profits of their products.

            Originally posted by Stormbringer Ruler
            Most of the times (as is the case for LOTR) the movie is very different from the book. Even the characters are different (sometimes not only physically but mentally as well), which is quite disappointing for fans. In the case of LOTR I don't blame them because the movie did need a lot more action than the book actually has.
            Considering what I just wrote, you can understand why the movies end up being different than the book. Of course Tolkien never wrote that "Legolas extreme-boarded down the stairs on an Uruk-hai sheild, a-firing his bow." Nor did he write "Gimli unleashed an untimely belch, during the argument over war." Surely such things made the professor roll over in his grave, but that's just the way movies are made nowadays. They consider the pacing of the movie. If you have a movie that's all serious, depressing, and deathly, you are not going to attract a large number of people. It will be a cult classic among Goths perhaps. But if you have a movie where people will get excited, laugh, and cry, that's what you want. People will come and watch and, most importantly, pay for the tickets.
            Considering this, will the Weitzes insert humor into the Elric Saga? If so, you have been forwarned :) But if what Michael says is true, they want to stay true as possible, there won't be much if any humor involved with the tragic tale of our beloved Albino. The true fans will be happy, but I doubt that it will have the mass appeal that LOTR does-- I am counting on an "R" rating! :) I can imagine people saying "I like LOTR better!" (Then you hammer them over the head!) :twisted: and you think "Yeah, and you're a moron too!" :lol:

            Woo Hoo!! I'm done! Now I can go have a life! Have a great day! :)
            \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
            Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

            Comment


            • #21
              Actually I'm determined to get some sort of humour (at least ironic humour) into the first movie. Interaction with Rakhir will help there, for instance, and Moonglum later. Talking this over with Chris Weitz, he pointed out that there weren't a lot of belly-laughs in The Matrix.
              I was listening to a Tolkien interview done oN BBC radio in 1971 in which he said he thought his dwarves were rather like Jews. Now that would have added something to the movie. Mel Brooks as the dwarf ?
              I suspect that had Tolkien lived, he would have done more with the movie version and it might have been all the more interesting and just as successful.

              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
              The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
              Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
              The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
              Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

              Comment


              • #22
                DO NOT POST ON THIS THREAD unless about films progress!!!!!!

                Humor. Oops, I meant humour. :roll:

                The Actor who you mentioned you'd like to play Yrkoon, whose name, like Niun, I can't remember has had to have seen Alan Rickman as the Sheriff of Nottingham and other pastiches. The humour would be in Elric's protagonists. I'm reminded of the banter between the Tomb robbers in the Mummy Returns. Not only Arioch, Miltons rebel angel would be sarcastic. We need humour in thesetimes.

                Something so heavy and broody can't be carried alone without a wry wink. Music, and not muzak will be highly formative. Do you think Dave Brock would take on doing a film score?

                I saw the site of Rodney Matthews whose landscapes and creatures are so fantastical. In Peter Jacksons production he employed two Tolkien Illustraters Alan Lee ant the other one. What are your concepts for the Art direction, as that will be fundamental to convey a fantasy world?
                \'You know my destiny?\' said Elric eagerly. \'Tell me what it is, Niun Who Knew All.\'
                Niun opened his mouth as if to speak but then firmly shut it again. \'No,\' he said. \'I have forgotten.\'

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                  Actually I'm determined to get some sort of humour (at least ironic humour) into the first movie. Interaction with Rakhir will help there, for instance, and Moonglum later. Talking this over with Chris Weitz, he pointed out that there weren't a lot of belly-laughs in The Matrix.
                  Well i think at least Elric needs 'a little' ironic CHARM at least....
                  Depp's character in POTC had lots o that. But Elric needs only a small fraction of it, otherwise i think there will be too much brooding for a movie audience..

                  Come to think of it.. Matrix didn't have any charm that i can think of?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Mike, as I am sure you are all too aware, there is a difference between humor and the sort of pandering self-awareness that has pervaded art in recent years. That kind of smarmy "catch-phrase" type of humor. I remember in the first LOTR, at one point Gimli makes a comment about "dwarf tossing" that was so out of context that it ruined much of the sequence for me. I also remember Arnold S. going on the Tonight Show plugging one of his movies and saying "I am confident that we will have the next catch-phrase of the summer with this movie". That's why you spent a year and $100MM making the movie? So kids would say "Hasta la vista, babay!"??????????

                    One would hope that the characters can incorporate some humor into their interactions as a part of a realistic representation. I know my friends are pretty funny, but none of them are worried about whether anything they say will catch on with the 18-25 demographic, if you know what I mean.

                    I imagine that if anyone can do it, it is the Moorcock/Weitz team.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The film has to have a depth which isn't so far present in anything I've seen. I was impressed by James Spader's playing in The Practice, especially the episode where he finally confronts his partners. I know this sounds strange, but there were nuances in that scene which I would like to see in at least one Elric scene where his cynicism and wit are understood in a particular context. Spader's character, incidentally, is somehow sympathetic, though his actions often aren't. To me this is the most interesting kind of character (Rhett Butler, for instance, in Gone With the Wind!). I am considering a scene where Elric confronts Yyrkoon and pretty much agrees that Yyrkoon, for all his wicked ways, would make a better Emperor of Melnibone. The ramifications of this scene should set the tone, if we get it right. That's why the actor is so important. Russell Beale is a plump actor who has played Richard III,
                      for instance, and given new nuances to many superbly done roles. I'm not sure why he seems to prefer the stage almost exclusively. I seem to remember he was in Four Weddings and a Funeral. Can't remember.
                      He is an incredibly good classical actor. I haven't seen him in many
                      modern roles, but used to go to every production of the Royal Shakespeare or National Theatre which had him in it. Linda and I even wrote him a fan letter once!

                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        We felt the same about Ian M and Alan Rickman, when they were regularly on the stage, by the way. Rickman's success in movies (and I agree he was a great Sheriff -- only good part inthe whole movie) took him away from the theatre. He created the role in Liassons Dangereuses
                        and was infinitely superior, for instance, to John Malkovitch, who vulgarised the part as, in my view, he usually vulgarises everything he gets near.

                        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                        The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                        Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                        The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                        Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          That is an interesting comment; "vulgarizes" in what sense?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Overacting is part of it. Spielberg also guilty of it. Can't help souping something up, overdoing it. Almost a characteristic of Hollywood, in the views of some critics. Spielberg example -- Empire of the Sun. When
                            'Jim' sees the dead Japanese soldier. Spielberg had to show you him
                            getting shot, like a scene from a Western. Crude melodrama substituted for quiet image. That's why I can't bear, even now, to watch Schindler's Ark. A good popular film maker, doing melodramas, which I like, he
                            constantly cheapens his 'serious' subjects (Private Ryan is another example -- the Vin Diesel scene, for instance, with the French child).
                            My reaction is very close to anger, though contempt might be a better word. I felt this in particular about the scenes D.M.Thomas stole from
                            Maximof re. The White Hotel. The Ukrainian writer had described his
                            concentration camp atrocities with clinical, cold language, which made them all the more effective. Thomas added words and comments which, yes, vulgarised the same scenes (much word for word from the English translation). He sexualised scenes, too, which brought them close to being fetishistic. All this is degenerative. Makes me very upset.

                            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                            The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                            Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                            The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                            Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Got it; I agree actually.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I had this problem with The Final Programme (which has a nice example of the poster, I've just noticed, on the Amazon UK movie site) where the director vulgarised and the actors did their best not to. I had some great actors, too, from John Finch and Jenny Runacre to Hugh Griffiths,
                                Graham Crowden, Sterling Hayden, George Chakaris -- couldn't fault the actors -- all working against the director because their instincts told them something better. The result wa pretty awful, but if you ever watch it
                                you might note that the actors are doing the good work and the director is working against them... :)

                                Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                                The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                                Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                                Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                                The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                                Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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