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Elric Movie (Thread part II)

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  • #76
    Isn't Elric just a cleaned up Gollum ? And he has to die in the end, too...
    Actually, Elric is a better-looking Melmoth, I suppose.

    Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
    The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
    Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


    Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
    The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
    Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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    • #77
      Flashback!

      Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
      ...
      Actually, Elric is a better-looking Melmoth, I suppose.
      Viking dig party in the Shetlands, many moons ago, stoned out of box, reading the tales of damnation and depravity contained in 'Melmoth The Wanderer' and laughing, whilst others sat knitting Shetland jumpers.

      :lol:

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      • #79
        They'd discovered that it was a traditional Shetland fishermen's skill for long winter evenings and wished to emulate them. Hairy cardigans in natural colours and traditional patterns were in vogue up there at the time.

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        • #80
          Isn't Elric just a cleaned up Gollum ? And he has to die in the end, too...
          Actually, Elric is a better-looking Melmoth, I suppose.

          Mr. M,

          Don't give out your address after saying this. You will have angry fans outside your door. If you need a bodyguard please call me.
          Well to give credit to Elric - he is perhaps a little more refined than Gollum. Can't see the last lord of the bright empire scampering around on all fours with a raw fish in his mouth.

          Actually when I first read 'the sailor on the seas of fate' the 'creature doomed to die' reminded me a little of Gollum.
          Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

          Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

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          • #81
            Originally posted by devilchicken
            ...

            Well to give credit to Elric - he is perhaps a little more refined than Gollum. Can't see the last lord of the bright empire scampering around on all fours with a raw fish in his mouth.

            ...
            Never tempt an author! Even one with a huge fan base. 8O


            ...

            Actually, there was a lot of gothic business with depraved monks and debauched nuns in 'Melmoth' as I recall... :D

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            • #82
              erm.... the Creature Doomed to Live, rather....

              Oh and about the Dreamthief's Daughter.... I thought it was a good book, although much more of a Von Bek than an Elric book. If you're into the Von Bek stories, and Germany and Nazis and whatnot, then The Dreamthief's Daughter is great. Personally I tire of the Von Bek stories and their references to "our" world, although I still found the story to be good. I was just expecting it to be more of an Elric tale, being as it has been advertised as such.

              ~Enon

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              • #83
                erm.... the Creature Doomed to Live, rather...
                erm indeed

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                • #84
                  Originally posted by Enonimis
                  erm.... the Creature Doomed to Live, rather....

                  Oh and about the Dreamthief's Daughter.... I thought it was a good book, although much more of a Von Bek than an Elric book. If you're into the Von Bek stories, and Germany and Nazis and whatnot, then The Dreamthief's Daughter is great. Personally I tire of the Von Bek stories and their references to "our" world, although I still found the story to be good. I was just expecting it to be more of an Elric tale, being as it has been advertised as such.

                  ~Enon
                  I was quite fond of the Von Bek books, and especially the ambiguity of the Satan figure. The characterization of Lucifer was a refreshing change from the traditional 2 dimensional archetypal treatment.
                  I actually felt... sympathy for the devil?
                  Was he sincere in trying to get back into god's good graces or was it his greatest trick?
                  I also liked the undercurrent of mysticism in the nazi ideology. I'm dreadfully deficient in historical knowledge, was this based on fact?

                  Personally, I always thought that Lucifer's greatest trick would be to convince humanity that he was "god".

                  The Elric series was my intro to Moorcocks stuff, however my all time favorite is the End of Time series, for it's ability to be whimsically original and thought provoking simultaneously.
                  I had always hoped to see more stuff with Lord Jagged (perhaps as main character even), being one of my favorites, but unfortunately that doesn't seem likely.

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                  • #85
                    I don't have the information to hand, but from what I remember (and I could be off slightly) the inner core of the Nazi party had a particular interest in Grail legends ans mysticism, and many of their Aryan race ideals were based on certain Atlantis legends about ancient races- I'm sure someone here knows who 'wrote' those legends, or rather the book they were presented in. I'll try and find reference to it, I have it on the bookpile somewhere, I think... If I remember... Which I might not until rereading this jogs my memory...

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                    • #86
                      There was a book by two French blokes a good few years ago -- was it called The Dawn of Magic in English ? -- which made a lot of the Nazi interest in mystical theories. I'm not sure Hitler, Goering and Co. were that much into such ideas, but there has always been a tendency for right-wingers to be interested in that stuff, in my experience. I used some of it in The Final Programme (remember the Nazi sub under Lappland in the movie ?) -- the hollow earth theory and so on. I suspect that they were such an ignorant bunch, they were rather gullible when it came to a number of crackpot notions, including, of course, racial theories... In all my considerable research into the private lives of Nazis, very little evidence has emerged for their being THAT heavily involved.
                      Hess was, as I recall, but most of the others were of a rather pragmatic streak, which makes them all the more terrifying to me! I used the ideas in at least two other books apart from FP -- The Dragon in the Sword and The Dreamthief's Daughter.

                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                      Comment


                      • #87
                        Originally posted by liar_on_high
                        Personally, I always thought that Lucifer's greatest trick would be to convince humanity that he was "god".
                        the facts are in the book : God creates a servile, mindless and ignorant being, then Lucifer comes and makes something else out of it by giving it REASON and FREE WILL. Lucifer creates man out of Jehovah's pet monkey.
                        Hence, God's greatest trick would have been to convince humanity that he is God !

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                        • #88
                          Originally posted by mordenkainen
                          Originally posted by liar_on_high
                          Personally, I always thought that Lucifer's greatest trick would be to convince humanity that he was "god".
                          the facts are in the book : God creates a servile, mindless and ignorant being, then Lucifer comes and makes something else out of it by giving it REASON and FREE WILL. Lucifer creates man out of Jehovah's pet monkey.
                          Hence, God's greatest trick would have been to convince humanity that he is God !
                          Ahh ok perhaps I have the story mixed up. My biblical knowledge is mostly second hand.
                          I thought the reason and free will came from the apple in the garden of eden placed there by god himself?
                          (But then wouldn't having free will BEFORE eating the apple be implied by the choice to do so?)

                          Pardon the excursion so far off topic.

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                          • #89
                            the tree of life and the tree of knowledge were in the garden, and he told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge. in the bible, it doesn't actually say "apple", it just says fruit. anyway... why he would put something so tempting in front of his new creations makes no sense to me at all. :roll:

                            if i kicked my kids out of the house for disobeying me, left them to fend for themselves out in the dangerous world, you know i'd be put in jail for child neglect.

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                            • #90
                              I agree with you on the fact that Rome did set some bad examples for future European nations. But Romans did one thing differently, besides killing and subjugating 'barbarians' they had a habit of incorporating along with territories and populations, foreign knowledge into the empire. This resulted in a Roman Empire that was both ethnically and even culturally surprisingly diverse. Which is why more Caesars came from Spain than anywhere else! As time went by the wealthy grew ever more corrupt, the military more lax to the point that they started hiring non-roman mercenaries to fight against their own people :roll:. Payment included well forged Roman weaponry...talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Therefore it was no surprise that Rome's many enemies eventually became better armed and armored than the Romans themselves. By the reign of Romulus Augustulus the Roman government was in shambles, there was public discontent to the point that the Coliseum gorefest was no longer sufficient to keep them distracted, their enemies got wind of this...and the rest is history. But there is a difference between their methods and what the European colonizers did when they came to the Americas. The English in particular made no effort to incorporate Native Americans into their flock, they decided wholesale extermination was a better idea. Along with the Spaniards they did not bother learning about and much less preserving 'heathen' wisdom. This of course culminated in the greatest genocide in all of human history, far worse in the number of victims involved than the Holocaust. In fact Hitler based part of his own ethnic cleansing 'methods' on what was done in the Americas! But going back to the subject of Europe's grudge against Semitic peoples...for one few people know that the greatest works of Greek literature, science, mathematics and medicine were first translated and expanded upon by *drumroll* Arab scholars. The Arabs had already enriched their culture by drawing on the Indian, Babylonian, Egyptian and Chinese civilizations as well. When European monks made pilgrimages with the intention of adding more books to their libraries where did they go? Any of the great centers of Islamic learning between Baghdad and Cordova. Here they enthusiastically penned translations of the Arab texts in Latin and this information had a very important part in propeling mainland Europe into the Rennaisance. But the whole Crusade fiasco had left Europeans with a resentment towards the very people who indirectly helped enlighten them. They weren't about to give any credit to their former enemies after all...

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