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Elric Movie (Thread part II)

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  • #61
    I was thinking the music slaves of Elric's court would necessitate a different kind of soundtrack.
    Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

    Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

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    • #62
      hmmmm Nobuo Ueamtsu rules...that would do, if there is no Morricone.
      Morricone.
      Morricone.

      And no picking and scouring on Hans because of what he said. I like asians. But i also like johnny depp. Thatآ´s all.

      NO PICKING.

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      • #63
        II have stated on a different thread my music wishes for the movie. Because of it's darkness, I think that something along the lines of Glenn Danzig's Black Aria album (hear the "Battle for Heaven") would work extremely well for an Elric movie. Something more on a dark classical level is what this movies needs. Not Rock! My second choice would be for Vangelis. Whatever the movie, he seems to always have a feeling in his music that works well in movies (Bladerunner, The Bounty & 1492: Conquest of Paradise). I hope that a director can be found to pull this movie off, someone who is a visionary. Maybe somebody like John Milius, Tim Burton, David Lynch or Brad Anderson? What do you think?

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        • #64
          I have stated on a different thread my music wishes for the movie. Because of it's darkness, I think that something along the lines of Glenn Danzig's Black Aria album (hear the "Battle for Heaven") would work extremely well for an Elric movie. Something more on a dark classical level is what this movies needs. Not Rock! My second choice would be for Vangelis. Whatever the movie, he seems to always have a feeling in his music that works well in movies (Bladerunner, The Bounty & 1492: Conquest of Paradise). I hope that a director can be found to pull this movie off, someone who is a visionary. Maybe somebody like John Milius, Tim Burton, David Lynch or Brad Anderson? What do you think?

          I wasn't logged in...Sorry.

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          • #65
            Usefulness of the original Elric stories for the movie

            Originally posted by Athenys
            T...I want Elric to be at least as good as LOTR and if possible even truer to the books.
            I beg to differ.


            Well, on first sight, what you write is what probably comes to all our minds. On the other hand, in their time, Elric stories were somewhat based on the political situation then in existence (the "then" probably covering a 10-15 years span)

            LOTR had the advantage to relate to a very general "good against evil" scheme, easily understood or at least swallowed by most people. "Elric content" always compared to LOTR as being much more complex and differentiated. (Personally, I never ever grasped why it was the one and only Hobbit Frodo to "do the job" on LOTR.)

            Admittedly, I'm totally new to this thread and didn't have the time to check all of the past entries, so this may have been discussed before.


            Originally posted by Athenys
            I mean it's not like the screenwriters have much of a choice, with Michael still being alive and all, unlike Tolkien. But still, one cannot be too trusting of big corporate Movie Studios. In adapting a series like Elric, you have the potential to present a real cinematic jewel to a far larger audience or single-handedly defame your life's work. Then people who might have been unaware of Elric might not even bother reading the books because the movie is bad :( ...
            Given the cost of a potential Elric movie, one will have to make it more "current" to make it worthwile, else it may well either fail because of a coaxed cheapness of production or b/o sheer disinterest with the public.

            Not, that I wanted to measure a movie's value by the turnover it amasses,
            but, as it has been stated at the early stages of the original thread,
            LOTR has opened the doors for big, epic fanatasy movies. It also has
            raised the level of expectations for forthcoming movies of this type!
            A twisted character like Elric - much like Macbeth - doesn't lend itself to the "average" man to identify himself with.

            But: the scheme of friends betrayed and comrades left behind IS a strong current theme, as well as obviously treacherous "leaders" like ruthless industry bosses and politicians; and their schemes and machinations. Also, the ongoing pseudo-religious struggle between islamism and christianism could possibly be transformed to blend in as a motive, since "magic" and "religion" are not that far apart, anyway.

            I very much doubt that the original Elric stories really can exercise the same intensity on enough of the young people today as they did in our time, if they cannot relate what is depicted in the film somehow to their own lives. The original Elric stuff of course needs to be implemented as a strong background, a firm base, to support a "modern" Elric.

            I am also writing this from my own personal experience with "the dreamthief's daughter", which - although I bought it on sight, and very eagerly, at that - was but a complete utter failure for me.

            And, to close the circle, with a "true implementation", I fear we'll all be frustrated and disappointed. Try to get a common visualization of such simple things as the shade gate from the contenders here, alone. And that is but a microscopic element in the Elric universe.
            Lives of great men all remind us we may make our lives sublime
            and so departing leave behind us footprints in the sands of time

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            • #66
              Rough

              Errrm i hate to seem rude or non-polite, but i would just hate to see a "modern elric"... it would be horrendous, and i don't think it would do well... i think the books are perfect, thus cannot be "modernized"... would you 'modernize' Beethoven's 9th or Wagner's "Ring of the Nibelungs"??? One who would dare to do such a thing would deserve to burn in hell... and if someone asks me if i see the elric saga as i see beethoven's work the answer is YES, it is huge, perfect, extasiating. And not to be 'modernized'. A good tale is a good tale, no matter what times we live in. If not, there would never be any good tales. And, i would disagree with LOTR comments, because despite what everyone says, i see LOTR as a 2nd world war analogy, all that west and east and good and evil and even when the undead come (SPECIALLY IN THE MOVIE) you think - wow, go REDS! give those nazis hell, mr. communist! - I can be utterly wrong and as blind as a door, but that's the way i see it... AND a lot of people around me sees that as well...

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              • #67
                Re: Rough

                Originally posted by Hans von Hammer
                Errrm i hate to seem rude or non-polite,
                No offence taken ;)
                Originally posted by Hans von Hammer
                but i would just hate to see a "modern elric"... it would be horrendous, and i don't think it would do well... i think the books are perfect, thus cannot be "modernized"... would you 'modernize' Beethoven's 9th or Wagner's "Ring of the Nibelungs"???
                Of course! Have you not witnessed what was going on at Bayreuth in the last 25 years ? There have been most able fresh implementations of the stuff, taking it out of overcome Germanic realms of mist. The interpretations of the respective directors have soon beeng recognized as apt, after a few months of lamenting.

                Originally posted by Hans von Hammer
                One who would dare to do such a thing would deserve to burn in hell...
                There is no such thing as a christian hell in the elric multiverse, I think. 8)
                but the same thing has been said to Patrick Chireau. Shall I say : "Thank you" now ? ;)))
                Originally posted by Hans von Hammer
                and if someone asks me if i see the elric saga as i see beethoven's work the answer is YES, it is huge, perfect, extasiating.
                Are you aware what contemporary critics wrote on the 9th at Beethoven's time ? ;))

                Originally posted by Hans von Hammer
                And not to be 'modernized'. A good tale is a good tale, no matter what times we live in. If not, there would never be any good tales. And, i would disagree with LOTR comments, because despite what everyone says, i see LOTR as a 2nd world war analogy, all that west and east and good and evil and even when the undead come (SPECIALLY IN THE MOVIE) you think - wow, go REDS! give those nazis hell, mr. communist! - I can be utterly wrong and as blind as a door, but that's the way i see it... AND a lot of people around me sees that as well...
                Don't know about your personal reception on the Dreamthief's daughter.
                Do you think THAT was a good tale, too ?
                LOTR might well be a view of WWII, I have no trouble with that.
                I was rather reminded of a certain period when the elves marched into Helm's Klamm under Boldir's command....especially in the movie,

                Of course, I presented my personal view, and wouldn't want to annoy somebody. Sorry if my contribution hurt you.

                And I didn't say that the books should be modernized, but that the film should be carried by a modernized story, with the legacy stuff blending in.
                My guess is that LOTR always was in much wider circulation than Elric was,
                even though Elric clearly had a more "colourful" repertoire. Could there be a reason for that ?
                :)

                Let's see what others are thinking.
                Lives of great men all remind us we may make our lives sublime
                and so departing leave behind us footprints in the sands of time

                Comment


                • #68
                  Well, I see the Tolkien books as more relating to the first world war, which he experienced more directly. I'm uneasy about the 'Eastern threat' and the white against black stuff, also Tolkien's stated association of the Dwarves with Semitic people and so on. Elric does have resonances, of course, with the end of the British empire, but the books have gone on selling in all the advanced democracies, as well as Russia and elsewhere, since they were written, so I suppose they must still seem pretty relevant. I was sorry Yyrkoon didn't like Dreamthief's Daughter, which quite a few people thought was the best after Stormbringer -- but then Yrkie wasn't in it, so that might have something to do with it. :) The Weitz brothers see the story as remaining relevant to modern times (mankind's ambivalent relationship with its weapons, for instance) and I suspect the books have gone on selling for the past forty years or more because they do continue to speak to each generation. At least, that's what they tell me... :)

                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                  The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                  Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                  The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                  Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                    ... Elric does have resonances, of course, with the end of the British empire, but the books have gone on selling in all the advanced democracies, as well as Russia and elsewhere, since they were written, so I suppose they must still seem pretty relevant.
                    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                    I was sorry Yyrkoon didn't like Dreamthief's Daughter, which quite a few people thought was the best after Stormbringer -- but then Yrkie wasn't in it, so that might have something to do with it. :)
                    uhmm...no ... I actually understood ... and hated your Yrkoon at the same time. Ambivalence is what I always liked about Elric ;) So,that's why I'm using this pseudonym ;)
                    But you as a writer clearly can't please everyone; so, thank you for being sorry without a reason ;) There's so many good stuff that you wrote and I purchased that there's really no need to be sorry. :D
                    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                    The Weitz brothers see the story as remaining relevant to modern times (mankind's ambivalent relationship with its weapons, for instance) and I suspect the books have gone on selling for the past forty years or more because they do continue to speak to each generation. At least, that's what they tell me... :)
                    It's hopefully up to you as the author to judge what we will finally see in the movie.
                    If not you, who could tell the resonance properly, so, if ELRIC is still getting receiving the emotions that we felt when we were young, that brings back some hope about the contemporary youth to me. .
                    Maybe, the PISA effects are stronger in Germany than elsewhere ;)
                    Lives of great men all remind us we may make our lives sublime
                    and so departing leave behind us footprints in the sands of time

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I finally read Elric of Melnibone. I am interested to see how these books will be translated into film. It is hard for me to see how Elric tries not to be that selfish when he is part of a culture where the majority of people do every immoral thing under the sun. I also can't believe Elric would let Yyrkoon be emperor while he is away on his journey. :? Will people be able to relate to this? Anyways, I think Tolkien could not help but be influenced by World War 1 and 2. After all he fought in World War 1. Also Tolkien lived during World War 2 and his son Christopher fought in the second World War.

                      Galadriel

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                      • #71
                        Excellent. Good points. Makes perfect sense.
                        Regret achieves nothing. Regret breeds weakness. Regret is a cancer which attacks the body's vital organs and eventually destroys.

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                        • #72
                          Unfortunately the U.S. opted to follow in the footsteps of the former British Empire, while the E.U. will likely go back to it's more upfront colonial policies of yore. Look at the maps for illegal tourism, drug trade and human trafficking routes. That will give you a good idea of who's on what side of the economic equation...but I digress. Melnibone is also akin to the Atlantis of legend, a remarkably advanced civilization that perished as a result of it's hubris and spiritual corruption. It's an island much like Numenor was in the Silmarillion, also reminiscent of Atlantis. IMO Melniboneans also have all the restraint and morality of the Roman Elite during the reign of Nero and Caligula, who regularly took part in "bacchanalian revelries of unparalleled extravagant, decadence and debauchery".
                          "Man, an object of reverence in the eyes of men, is now slaughtered for jest and sport ... and it is a satisfying spectacle to see a man made a corpse." For Seneca, sharing the enjoyment of that spectacle brutalized and desensitized viewers and fostered their appetite for still more cruelty. It undercut the central task of seeking to grow in humanity, in nobility of spirit, in understanding, and in freedom from greed, cruelty, and other desires; and thereby to progress toward self-mastery. Seneca saw any diversion as deflecting from this task; but taking pleasure in brutality-in "seeing a man made a corpse"-actually reversed the development, destroyed humanitas: the respectful kindness that characterizes persons who have learned how to be fully human among humans. Violent entertainments rendered spectators crudelior et inbumanior-"more cruel and more inhumane"-acculturating them to pitilessness and to lack of respect for their fellow humans and other creatures.
                          You also start seeing a disturbing parallel between what we are becoming through our ever more extreme forms of 'entertainment' and what gradually happened to the spectators at the Roman Coliseum. What began as lawful combat degenerated into the indiscriminate slaughter of thousands for their pleasure. When the arena turned muddy with blood, they would simply throw sand on top and continue with the games...

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                          • #73
                            Cheers, Yyrk. I long since learned that my own opinion of a boom for instance, is often not at all that of the reader. I've had raves for books I thought not that good and savage attacks for books I thought were pretty good. So it goes.
                            Elric's not really that selfish, I'd have thought. What he is is mixed up. His training is that of a Melnibonean but his instincts are closer to those of the best humans. Reconciling them is his problem. And he doesn't exactly get a free ride, losing the two great loves of his life as well as his best friends etc. etc. As long as this can be got across in the movie -- and it's what the Weitz brothers like about the books, after all -- we don't need to worry. And imginative fiction is full of villains you find yourself sympathising with -- the Frankenstein monster, King Kong, even Dracula on occasions. My thought is that these are actually the most enduring characters. Gollum's the saving character, after all, in LOTR. He remains my favourite. I hated the unhappy ending...

                            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                            The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                            Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                            The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                            Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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                            • #74
                              The Lord of the Rings is basicaly about how people can overcome great odds. I like Gollum too but sadly he had to die, just as Frodo had to die at the end.

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                              • #75
                                Did Frodo die? He took the ship to Valinor -

                                Frodo is very much a victim of what happens to him - perhaps Tolkien drawing from his experiences.

                                Elric too is a victim - but he still makes his own choices (as much as he is able - being a pawn of the Lords of the Higher Worlds), and whether for good or ill, he lives very much with the consequences of his actions - and the price he will eventually pay for them.

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