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MM + DC = Yee-Haw!

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  • MM + DC = Yee-Haw!

    Okay, I'm entertained. For free, yet. After several threads and darkling hints from Mike, his take on the application of the multiverse to the rebooted DC universe is finally starting to show. (I'm writing this generally, Mike - must respect fellow noble Moorcockianses!)

    Last night I was reading Newsarama articles, mostly about the various character changes. Who lives, who dies, what happens "One Year Later" (that's what's going to happen for you non-comics folks; DC is having a big crisis where everything is going to come to an end in current story arcs, the fictional universe changes, and there is a year-long gap. When the stories start, it will be 'one year later' with all the revamped characters in place.) The biggest changes directly reflect Mike's influence, particularly in magic and realities.

    I'm thinking the main Moorcock influence will be seen in Shadow Pack (not sure if that's one word or two) and Kurt Busiek's Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis. Shadow Pack is all about magic, with some of the lesser-known DC characters (Nightmaster, Blue Devil, etc.) of the magic sorts teaming up and fighting evil. Aquaman introduces a new Aquaman (about the fifth or sixth interpretation of the character, actually) in a flat-out sword-and-sorcery underwater realm. Kurt has just come off writing a fairly acclaimed take on Conan for another company (I haven't read it - maybe someone who has could comment), and is taking this new Aquaman in that direction.

    Overall, it looks like DC is taking the best of the character takes over the years (Golden Age, Silver Age, etc) and putting them in a re-formed universe. But - and this is why these comments are here - this whole new universe seems to have been formed within Moorcock's multiverse.

    Now, Mike, I don't think you knew the extent that Levitz and DC would take your 'bible', or that the whole magilla would be set on your precedents. I also don't know what sort of financial arrangement you had - but I hope it was beefy! Also don't know about credits and so forth, and neither acknowledgement for finances are any of my business (so don't yap in public). What I'm wondering is if there is some sort of editorial or oversight or consultation function. What I'm asking is that since you have written guidelines, are the various editors and writers ever consulting with you as to the application of your take on the DC multiverse? And are they going to credit you publically?

    The other part that hooks into this is how come DC has been deathly quiet about Elric: Making of a Sorcerer? They owe you good PR, at the very least! Especially since Walter is working with Howie Chaykin on the new Hawkgirl. I think, as an outsider, that linking you, Walter, and the new titles would be a good thing. But on the DC front it's been almost unspoken.

    And how's the teeth?
    :)

    PS- Yes, it's after Dec. 10th - reference "Where is Elric 3" thread.!

    PPS- Berry, don't you dare move this to the comics thread where Mike doesn't go! Love, -M.
    Miqque
    ... just another sailor on the seas of Fate, dogpaddling desperately ...

  • #2
    Re: MM + DC = Yee-Haw!

    Originally posted by Miqque
    Aquaman introduces a new Aquaman (about the fifth or sixth interpretation of the character, actually) in a flat-out sword-and-sorcery underwater realm.
    About time someone got it right - that's how I wanted to see Aquaman, a sea-faring sword and sorcery. So far the news has peaked my interest in comics again :D

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting... I haven't really been reading "mainstream" comics for a while, but as a teen I always got excited when they started linking things together for the big shake ups... not that I ever read enough of the crossovers to know what was going on, but still it made everything seem much grander. How will Ambush Bug fare I wonder? Or The Heckler for that matter? Somehow I doubt even a Multiverse-wide reversal of polarities is enough to bring The Heckler back! Poor chap. Ooh, and Shade the Changing Man! Those were the days... :)

      Edit: I went to look Ambush Bug up on Wikipedia, and that led to Keith Giffen, and that led to the discovery that my favourite ever comic writing team (Giffen & DeMatteis) are working together again! Hurrah! Now, if they could get back on some DC titles within a Moorcock-guided magickal multiverse... deep joy! :)
      "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
        How will Ambush Bug fare I wonder? Or The Heckler for that matter?
        Ah! It seems Mr Crowseer and I am of the same church - at least where obscure satirical superheroes are concerned. [i]Ambush Bug is one of my favouite DC mini-series ever (as is Son of Ambush Bug). If there was ever some puffed-up popinjay wearing their pants over their tights who needed their bubble bursting, AB was the guy to do it. The Heckler was iirc supposed to be an on-going series originally but proved too off-the-wall for most mainstream comics fan, and was brutally curtailed.
        _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
        _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
        _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
        _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by demos99
          Ah! It seems Mr Crowseer and I am of the same church - at least where obscure satirical superheroes are concerned.
          Hurrah! :)

          Originally posted by demos99
          Ambush Bug is one of my favouite DC mini-series ever (as is Son of Ambush Bug).
          Apparently he's still out there... somewhere... if only as an in-joke. This dedicated chap is keeping a record of all the Bug's cameo appearances (and when his name is taken in vain by other characters):

          http://www.fourhman.com/ambushbug/

          Originally posted by demos99
          The Heckler was iirc supposed to be an on-going series originally but proved too off-the-wall for most mainstream comics fan, and was brutally curtailed.
          I know! But I love that final panel... something like "being chewed up and spat out by an alien monster isn't enough to destroy The Heckler!" What about low sales figures? "Yeah. That'd do it..." :lol: :(

          Oh and lest we forget G'Nort, of Justice League Antartica, my second favourite Green Lantern.

          If DC are looking for someone to write revive these characters "one year later", I'll work for free... look, my initials even match! If nothing else it gives mainstream comic book fans something to sneer at and make them feel better about their "serious" titles...
          "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

          Comment


          • #6
            While I have a warm glow that DC Comics should ask Mike to come up with a 'Grand Unified Theory' of Magic in their comics, this is, what, the third or fourth 'reboot' that DC've come up with in almost 20 years, isn't it?

            The grand-daddy of course was Crisis on Infinite Earth, which at least made some kind of sense in that the DC universe *did* need simplifying for people who hadn't been reading comics for the past 40 years. Then you had Zero Hour, the main raison d'etre seemed to be a marketing ploy to publish '#0' issues of all DC's titles one month. (Later followed by 1,000,000, which meant DC could publish '#1000000' issues of all their titles one month.) Now we have Infinite Crisis - so it's like a crisis and it's unending? Just like a DC editorial meeting then? Boom boom! :)) - which is going to undo all the changes in CoIE?

            Looking at the Wikipedia entry on Infinite Crisis I see that the lead-up to the Event consists of killing off a whole load of second-stringers, the best known of which is Hawkwoman(!). (Donna Troy doesn't count 'cos she's coming back, don'tcha'no? And Blue Beetle? Well, I mean, Blue Beetle!?) At least CoIE had the guts to kill the second Flash, Barry Allen, who was a decent 'premiere league' superhero.

            I'm thinking re-boots can be useful, but at the rate DC are getting though them it can't be long before we see "Infinite Legendary Secret Crisis on Multiple Worlds - the Zero Crossover". :P
            _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
            _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
            _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
            _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

            Comment


            • #7
              Comicbook reboots tent to occur roughly every 15-20 years. I'm not sure Zero Hour counts as one, however, since continuity wasn't drastically altered.

              And DC One Million wasn't so much a reboot as a marketing gimmick. :)
              Best/Mario

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by demos99
                And Blue Beetle? Well, I mean, Blue Beetle
                Steady! I got a bit sad when I read of Beetle's demise. Blue Beetle and Booster Gold were a great double act when they were on form... but I guess that's from a comedy point of view, rather than a super heroic or fame stand point. Personally I always preferred the underdog types who weren't lucky enough to get the good press that Bats and Supes did. Just honest, hardworking men and women with half-decent powers, trying to do what they could to keep the Earth from being invaded every other month. For me the finest moments in the Giffen run of Justice League were the ones where you saw how frail and "human" the heroes were, regardless of species. That's probably why my favourite "super hero" film is Mystery Men! Well, that and Janeane Garofalo with green streaks in her hair. :)

                But I for one will miss Ted Kord. "Bwaaaa haaa haa ha ha ha!" and all. :(

                (Wikipedia is great! Apparently there'll be a new Beetle... and a Texan at that! Also, BB was supposedly the basis for "Nite Owl" in The Watchmen!!)

                Edit: Sorry for ranting on like this... it's the only way I can prevent myself from running upstairs and getting out all my old comics to read! The discussion has begun to give me new ideas for my own writing, but that's no excuse for derailing the thread. Sorry.
                "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
                  Originally posted by demos99
                  And Blue Beetle? Well, I mean, Blue Beetle
                  Steady! I got a bit sad when I read of Beetle's demise. Blue Beetle and Booster Gold were a great double act when they were on form... but I guess that's from a comedy point of view, rather than a super heroic or fame stand point.
                  Ah, well, I never got into BB and BG when they first appeared in the DCU (should that be DCM now?) so the demise of one (even if he was the inspiration for Nite Owl as you note correctly) doesn't do much for me as a casual reader of DC's comics now. (About the only DCU comic I read these days is Catwoman and that's only because I buy it for my sister. No, really. That's true! :))

                  BG was an interesting take on superheroes iirc - why shouldn't they charge for their 'services'? Why does being a 'superhero' always mean being altruistic? We're not all 'multi-millionaire' Bruce Wayne, you know? But then again, it wasn't a concept I was particularly keen on following back in 1986, when I was more into Watchmen and stuff.

                  I think the reason I highlighted BB in my earlier post was not to 'diss' him as it were, but to point out that DC are quite happy to kill off the "underdog types" rather than the A-listers like Kal-El or Bruce Wayne. Okay, Superman *did* die in "Doomsday" some years ago, but then he came back - he's an alien, so perhaps 'death' isn't the end for him - and anyway, we all know there's too much marketing rights tied up with Supes and Bats etc. for Time Warner to sanction any permanent changes to the characters.

                  Talking of "honest, hardworking men and women with half-decent powers" I think my favourite must be Buddy Baker, Animal Man (as written by Grant Morrison, that is) who's now tagged as a 'third string hero', so not even a second-stringer like BB. ;) Morrison - who appears to be one of the DC editorial architects for Infinite Crisis - wrote a 'Second Crisis' arc in his 26-issue run on AM, which temporarily brought back some of the Earth-2 characters (perhaps an early precursor to IC?

                  Not that this has anything to do with the original post, or Infinite Crisis or anything, but I think looking back on the past ten years that I definitely moved away as a DCU reader from regular superheroes to Vertigo comics like The Sandman, Hellblazer and Preacher and then as those series ended (or the creative teams changed) I pretty much dropped out of mainstream comics altogether. Even something like Alan Moore's ABC imprint which I do collect regularly isn't what I would call mainstream really.

                  I suppose this is what they call 'growing up'?

                  Bugger.

                  PS. Wikipedia is fab (despite what John Seigenthaler may say). :D
                  _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                  _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                  _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                  _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by demos99
                    I think the reason I highlighted BB in my earlier post was not to 'diss' him as it were, but to point out that DC are quite happy to kill off the "underdog types" rather than the A-listers like Kal-El or Bruce Wayne.
                    Yes, sorry. Good point. Despite not having picked up a DC comic book in years, I let my inner fanboy get the better of me! I'll shut up now. :)
                    "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "Kurt has just come off writing a fairly acclaimed take on Conan for another company (I haven't read it - maybe someone who has could comment), and is taking this new Aquaman in that direction. "


                      I've been reading Kurt Busiek's Conan since the beginning and I thought he did a nice job of it. he seemed to have a lot of enthusiasm for the character and a deep knowledge of Robert E. Howard's writing. Always a plus.
                      The comic followed the Marvel incarnation in that it switched back and forth from adaptations of REH's stories to brand new adventures of the big Cimmerian. Overall I liked the new stories best. I've read all of REH many many times. Sword of Aquaman should be in good hands.
                      DC is having a minor sword & sorcery rebirth with new series for Claw the Unconquered and Warlord. Can Stalker, Beowulf, and the original Starfire be far behind?
                      The new writer on Conan will be Tim Truman, writer artist of Grimjack, Scout, and many nifty features. Tim too is a big fan of REH and has always wanted to work on Conan. In fact he was in the middle of drawing two fill in issues of the Darkhorse title when offered the regular writing gig.
                      Last edited by David Mosley; 08-15-2009, 12:57 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Forgot about ol' Ambush Bug. One of Jack Kirby's little introductions (with Apokalips and New Gods and so forth) to the DCverse; kinda like Spider-Man with a ... well, with a bug up his bottom. Also neglected the Warlord bit - which is being downplayed as much as the other S&S aspects. Much more focus have been in light of new Flash, GL, the two Supermans, what's going to happen to Batman, and so forth.

                        Meanwhile, Marvel has been doing what they call the "House of M" with their own major universe reboot, their's focusing on mutantcy. There has not been as much talk about it, as Joe Q. and company continue to put out the pseudo-Stan lee teasers, where they actually come across as holier-than-thou putzes singsonging "I know something you don't know" rather than Stan feel-good-True-Believers spiel. Anyhoo, both seem to be paring down the overly-complicated multiple titles to a more reasonable number of titles. Guess that's their answer to expanding the audience base. The companies have to grow somehow or die, and for the past couple decades it has been grow in number of titles.

                        Now the problem is less work for the creative pros with less titles, complicated by bringing in pros from other media, such as Joss Whedon, Stephen King, and our Illustrious Mike. (Okay, some have done comics, but more are coming in from outside comics to do comics, while less are going from only-comics to do other things. See?)

                        But if anyone is Batman besides Bruce Wayne, I ain't buyin' it.
                        :x
                        Miqque
                        ... just another sailor on the seas of Fate, dogpaddling desperately ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Thongor
                          DC is having a minor sword & sorcery rebirth with new series for Claw the Unconquered and Warlord. Can Stalker, Beowulf, and the original Starfire be far behind?
                          I'd like to see a new "Warlord" series - that comic kicked ass, though it was really ERB's Pellucidar revisited. But classic Sword & Sorcery none the less. :D

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You'll get your wish at the first of the year, Azariel. Warlord hits the stands then with art by Bart Sears. Not sure how the series will do without Mike Grell, the original writer/artist, but guess we'll see.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Kirby had nothing to do with Ambush Bug. He was created by Paul Kupperberg and Keith Giffen in 1982.

                              BTW: Kurt Busiek, the new writer of Aquaman is interested in seeing Mike's bible. So it hasn't percolated to all the writers yet.
                              Best/Mario

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