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Joys of political correctness

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  • #61
    Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
    An example of PC-ism is that when right-wing cases are reported here, they are immediately liked unlike the so-called left-wings
    That's more opinion than political correctness. I'll not get into a disagreement about false stories. However, publications & sites, like National Review, aren't necessarily very trustworthy. I usually check to see how they handle, Climate Change (or vaccination, or the Covid19 Pandemic), if they are on the Denial end of the spectrum, I reckon they must be either dumb, or bullshitting (& National Review writers don't appear to be dumb). However, once I've established that they are big into denial, I no longer feel obliged to take anything else they put out seriously.

    That's my personal touchstone, based on the science & available evidence. Political Correctness? No idea. It is what it is.

    Comment


    • #62
      I don't know about national review, but the other cases are verified.
      "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
      "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

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      • #63
        The national review site cites the sources.
        "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
        "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
          The national review site cites the sources.
          To be honest, all this fake outrage flying about, on Left & Right, I really don't care, do U?

          This, from the Grauniad, is real Political Correctness gone mad... https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-south-america

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Pietro_Mercurios View Post

            To be honest, all this fake outrage flying about, on Left & Right, I really don't care, do U?

            This, from the Grauniad, is real Political Correctness gone mad... https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-south-america
            Yeah, I don't care either especially since I realized I am an ideologic Frankenstein: I am parts left and parts right and parts of me are anarchists and I certainly don't call myself a moderate center. I hate politicians that is it. I was not referring to you about the upvotes here but merely saying it is happening here.

            The issue with what has been called political correctness is that it leads to censorship and changing the way you refer to something really will not make the lives of the defended minorities any better. To accomplish the predicates of PC people has gone too far. And I believe 95% of the activism comes from people that don't believe in it truly as they are either following a modern trend among business companies or they are doing it to look altruistic.
            "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
            "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Pietro_Mercurios View Post

              To be honest, all this fake outrage flying about, on Left & Right, I really don't care, do U?

              This, from the Grauniad, is real Political Correctness gone mad... https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-south-america
              Can you believe the wildfires smoke nearly reached us here in Sao Paulo 800 km far? I saw reports of Argentina being in total chaos because of that and the pandemics.
              I know that at this time of the year we suffer from low levels of moisture ( here in Sao Paulo we had 20% and 38 C yesterday ) but people in the affected area know that and should be more careful. I suspect the wildfires start from either small accidental human incidents ( still a crime ) or those really intentional.
              "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
              "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

              Comment


              • #67
                Dune the film is now ruined because the patrol deemed it inappropriate,
                https://inkstickmedia.com/what-dune-...ave-in-common/
                "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
                  Dune the film is now ruined because the patrol deemed it inappropriate,
                  https://inkstickmedia.com/what-dune-...ave-in-common/
                  I am not overly concerned about the arguments made in the article. People who understand Dune can see several key points where the author's position breaks down under weight of the internal texts od Dune itself.
                  "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
                  --Thomas a Kempis

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Indeed. Dune only cares about the structures of cultures, including their religion(s) where appropriate, but is not examining them per se. Any and all are used, modified, merged, and essentially "tooled up" to the underlying survival-of-the-fittest theme.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I am surprised it's not a discussion of how the new Dune movie was ruined because "political correctness" changed the character of Liet Kynes from male to female, thus doing irreparable damage to Papa Herbert's grand tale. Really though, probably only a matter of time.

                      Anyway, regardless of whether the article's author understood Dune the book, Dune the movie's casting problem was easily foreseen. It should have been trivially easy for the studio to avoid.

                      Then again, so far the "protests" amount to little more than a handful of web articles from nerds and policy wonks whose influence is absolutely dwarfed just by that of Dune's co-star Zendaya, never mind the PR that the studio and eager sci-fi and big studio spectacle fans will provide.

                      All that said, I would agree that Dune the book is critical of the saviour trope. Lynch's movie, though, is all in on it.
                      Later update: further inquiry has revealed the twitters hold a lot more people pointing out the casting question. Again, though, studio should have seen it coming. The way it's played out it's looking a bit like everybody, except the people who the story is most likely to evoke, got a part in the show. I would also note some of the people saying there's a casting problem, still say they are excited by the show.
                      Last edited by Heresiologist; 10-18-2020, 10:58 PM. Reason: Update to include info gleaned from going further down the rabbit hole, plus a horizontal rule

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Ruined has been used as "sarcasm".
                        "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                        "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I think the criticism towards Dune exemplifies how it is possible to bring wrong interpretations about anything. When the "cause" is just. <= Sarcasm
                          "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                          "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Rothgo View Post
                            Indeed. Dune only cares about the structures of cultures, including their religion(s) where appropriate, but is not examining them per se. Any and all are used, modified, merged, and essentially "tooled up" to the underlying survival-of-the-fittest theme.
                            Agreed. Herbet used syncreticism as the model of social-religious evolution over the 20,000 years between him and the events of Dune. The Fremen, while appearing Arab on the barest surface, are explicity described as being decended from the "Zen-Sunni Wanderers," a clearly syncretic culture used by Herbert as a shorthand template to develop a cultural history rather than commentary on those histories and cultures.

                            Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post
                            I am surprised it's not a discussion of how the new Dune movie was ruined because "political correctness" changed the character of Liet Kynes from male to female, thus doing irreparable damage to Papa Herbert's grand tale. Really though, probably only a matter of time.

                            Anyway, regardless of whether the article's author understood Dune the book, Dune the movie's casting problem was easily foreseen. It should have been trivially easy for the studio to avoid.

                            Then again, so far the "protests" amount to little more than a handful of web articles from nerds and policy wonks whose influence is absolutely dwarfed just by that of Dune's co-star Zendaya, never mind the PR that the studio and eager sci-fi and big studio spectacle fans will provide.

                            All that said, I would agree that Dune the book is critical of the saviour trope. Lynch's movie, though, is all in on it.
                            Later update: further inquiry has revealed the twitters hold a lot more people pointing out the casting question. Again, though, studio should have seen it coming. The way it's played out it's looking a bit like everybody, except the people who the story is most likely to evoke, got a part in the show. I would also note some of the people saying there's a casting problem, still say they are excited by the show.
                            Regarding Liet-Kynes, I think only the strictest of Herbert's readers would have a problem with the current casting. Reading the character in the novel there is nothing about the character that changes with gender--his/her funciton in the story remains unchanged.

                            The argument that the Fremen are meant to be strictly Arab doesn't stand examination and therefore the complaint that Fremen should be Arab actors is also a weak one. Their background goes well beyond Muslim tradition and considering the 20k year gap we can likewise infer they are no longer strictly Arab. I think the casting of the Fremen--being descended from wanderers and obviously having means within their culture to assimilate outsiders--as a mix of people of varying backgrounds is the right approach. As such, I don't see a casting problem in the forthcoming film. It is a fiction that is as far in our future as we are in the future of humanity during the last glacial maximum. Just because the original author used certain cultures, languages, and religions as inspirational basis for the those found in the book does not mean the people existing within them will adhere to our limited view of what they are today.

                            Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
                            I think the criticism towards Dune exemplifies how it is possible to bring wrong interpretations about anything. When the "cause" is just. <= Sarcasm
                            Absolutely

                            "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
                            --Thomas a Kempis

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                            • #74
                              And after all the Fremen colony is perhaps the most adapted and badass one in the Dune universe.
                              "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                              "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Ruined has been used as "sarcasm".
                                Nevertheless, there can be no doubt a statement like the following isn't something you might post in here:

                                They attack again! Dune director joins the patrol, forces ineluctably male Liet-Kynes to transition to female: link-to-somebody-complaining

                                Alright, the "ineluctably male" part is not something you'd say. Old Marvel comics style No-Prize to those who get the reference.

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