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Kandy Korn for Arioch?

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  • Kandy Korn for Arioch?

    Found this, never heard of the Papaboys before. :cat:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051026/...d_by_halloween
    "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

  • #2
    :lol: That is one hysterical atricle, Talisant! It's so chock-full of ignorance, I have a hard time figuring out where to begin.

    Probably the most ludicrous statement -- which is repeated throughout the article, by the way -- is this idea that Halloween is an "American" holiday. Put simply, Halloween is a modern version of Samhain, a Celtic holiday celebrating the harvest. The Celts resided (a long damn time ago) in what is now Britain. I don't think they even knew of the land we call America.

    The article states, "Clerics and conservatives contend it clashes with the spirit of traditional Nov. 1 All Saints' Day remembrances."

    First of all, I believe Halloween predates the Catholic holiday of All Saints' Day by just a bit.

    Secondly, why is it that Christians always think their beliefs should outweigh everyone elses? Maybe there are people out there who feel All Saints' Day clashes with the spirit of Halloween. Hm?

    And the Papaboys you mentioned? Does one need to get a lobotomy in order to join their group? I ask only because they feel Halloween is "a party in honor of Satan and hell." Really now. Halloween has never been about Satan. Paganism and Satanism are completely different belief sets.

    Thanks for posting, Talisant. I needed a good laugh today. :D
    "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
    --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
      First of all, I believe Halloween predates the Catholic holiday of All Saints' Day by just a bit.
      Only sort of. Halloween is short for 'All Hallows Eve'; 'All Hallows' being the original name for All Saints' Day. Consequently, you could say that whichever Pope it was that labelled November 1 'All Saints' Day' also created Halloween.

      Samhain not only celebrates the harvest, it is also the Celtic day of the dead, which is not necessarily a negative thing but gives Halloween its association with ghosts and prophecy. As you say, Samhain falls on 31 October and November 1 is Celtic New Year. This is why the Pope made that day All Saints' Day, as tthe church tried to stamp out other religions by taking over their festivals (a trick they learned from the Roman Empire).

      So basically, it's a bit rich for Catholics to start complaining about Halloween when it was their fault in the first place. However, I think what most of the people in the article are really moaning about is the way that you evil Americans have commercialised Halloween and encouraged children to run amok, demanding sweets with menaces :P

      Comment


      • #4
        Ah yes...heaven forbid we allow an evening of fun for our children.

        As for the argument that it is an American Holiday...as both PWV and johneffay have pointed out: hardly. The reason the Catholic church made All Saint's Day fall on Nov.1 was as a way to ease the transition of Celtic converts into the religion. "See! You can still have your holidays...but now it is honoring...um...hmm...ah-ha! I got it! The Saints! Yeah, that's it! It is no longer Samhain, but 'All Saint's Day!' Yup." *nodding vigoroussly*

        johneffay pointed out that it could be an argument againt American commercialization of the holiday; but, by that reasoning they should also boycot Christmas and Easter because we've commercialized those holidays as much or more than Halloween.

        Do you ever wonder what the world would be like if the Celtic dominance of southern and western europe would not have faded? I mean, they were the dominant people from the Iberian pennisula to the Balkans (with exception to the Italian pennisula) with some tribes expanding as far as Asia Minor at their height; and streching north through southern Germany, Gaul, and onto the British Isles. It was only the Roman conquering of these area and peoples that opened the way for the later Germanic invasions that continue to define the division of most of western europe to this day. Exceptions being made of course for the Slavic and Magyar peoples who came out of eastern europe and central asia, respectively. It would be interesting, I think, to have a europe with more Celtic influence than German...be a very different place, I think.
        "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
        --Thomas a Kempis

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by johneffay
          However, I think what most of the people in the article are really moaning about is the way that you evil Americans have commercialised Halloween...
          Well, it would seem that's what we're best at. And by that logic, Christmas and Easter are American holidays as well. :P

          I love Halloween.

          But I hate Kandy Korn, so it's Fun Size Snickers for Arioch!
          "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
          --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

          Comment


          • #6
            Before hitting "Submit", I strayed away from my computer... just long enough for EverKing to beat me to the Christmas and Easter thing. :roll:
            "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
            --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

            Comment


            • #7
              All I know is that when I was growing up in Britain in the 1970s if we 'observed' Halloween at all - and mostly we didn't and very few of my friends did either - it was mostly limited to a party where we played games like 'apple bobbing' and 'pin the tail on the donkey'. We certainly didn't go out 'trick or treating', which I'm sorry to say I do see as an 'American tradition' we've (unfortunately) inherited over here in recent years. Anyway, in Britain our big 'autumnal celebration' comes 5 days later on Bonfire Night.

              But people should be allowed to 'honour' (or not) Halloween in whatever manner they see fit - as Christians are allowed to 'honour' Christmas and Easter - just as long as it doesn't involve hordes of (usually unknown) children banging on my door demanding 'treats' with the consequences of having eggs (or worse) thrown at my house if I decline to participate. :x

              Christmas and Easter celebrate the Promise and Fulfilment (respectively) of God's Salvation of Man from his Sins. I still, after all these years, completely fail to understand what Halloween is supposed to 'celebrate'. This year - as in previous years - we'll be turning off the lights and waiting until it all blows over. :)

              Of course, come November 5th I shall be letting off a ton of fireworks in the back garden and pining for the days when we could still build huge bonfires* and burn effigies of Catholic 'terrorists'.** :twisted:

              *Before anti-pollution legislation practically made it illegal.

              **Oh dear, I can see that's gonna get me in trouble.
              _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
              _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
              _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
              _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Kandy Korn for Arioch?

                Originally posted by Talisant
                Found this, never heard of the Papaboys before. :cat:

                http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051026/...d_by_halloween
                They should have watched the History Channels Halloween programs,hehe, they cover all the origins of Halloween and I agree, the American's did not invent the holiday. They were showing how the Celts carved faces in turnips before everyone started using pumpkins for "Jack-o-Lanterns."

                I always enjoyed Halloween, always a fun time. October weather was always good and it seemed like a special part of the year.

                Kandy Korn is ok. Miniature peanut butter cups are more my speed. "Swedish Fish" candy was always good for Halloween. :lol:

                "With a deep, not-unhappy sigh, Elric prepared to do battle with an army." (Red Pearls)
                - Michael Moorcock

                Comment


                • #9
                  I find it interesting that some Christians celebrate Halloween openly in view of its pagan origins, and obvious nod to witches and warlocks. "Lets all hate and condemn wiccans all year, but todays least join them" Its this kinda of thing that makes be doubt religion. I'm not Christian or wiccan, but its an interesting oxymoron if you will.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When will the madness end? Whenever there is a bandwagon to jump upon, you can bet these Christian fundamentalists will be amongst the first to take a leap no matter (even if it's a cliff edge) where it takes them.

                    Their faith is clearly not strong, otherwise there would be less of a feeling of unease at these old festivals and alternative beliefs. Only the other day I learned that there was a time when more people worshipped crocodiles than Jesus Christ.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Its all, the "my child feels left out" crap, Dream. Thats the excuse I get alot to explain it. Well, I seem to recall a certain carpenter saying "if the world hates you, know they hated me first." and "my kingdom is no part of this world" Really sad that me, a non-believer knows what thats means while Christians who go to church paint their kids faces to ' fit in ' with the world. :(

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In the late 50s and early 60s, Halloween, at least in my small town, was all about equal parts sweet tooth, greed, vandalism, monster movies, and scaring the opposite sex, and I miss it, the local mainstream churches were such good sports that they'd leave out bowls of candy on the front steps for the hundreds of young extortionists.

                        I've always thought that some of the late 60s early 70s protest marches had a similiar wild energy feel and look to them, at least the few that I experienced.

                        The worst treat was a popcornball (popcorn stuck together into a ball by using a thick, semi-set corn syrup, all of the candy in your bag would stick to it. One old geezer, Mr. Kennerly, was a "retired" stage magician who would thump your candy sack to make you believe that he'd thrown candy in it, we were too afraid of his attack peacocks to trick him. Sorry for waxing nostalgic.

                        The Papaboys summon up a vision of a Jesuit Animal House, no offense intended. :)
                        "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Azariel
                          I find it interesting that some Christians celebrate Halloween openly in view of its pagan origins, and obvious nod to witches and warlocks. "Lets all hate and condemn wiccans all year, but todays least join them" Its this kinda of thing that makes be doubt religion. I'm not Christian or wiccan, but its an interesting oxymoron if you will.
                          ....so true. Hypocracy at one of it's earliest forms. Whatever happened to "Love Thy Neighbor?"

                          I am surprised folks did not say that orcs were Satanic in The Lord of the Rings.

                          An AC/DC cap gets left at a murder crime scene once and all the sudden the band was labeled as "Satanic."

                          In the 80's there were tales of "Satanists" living in the next town. Oh boy, beware of those evil makers!

                          As we all know Dungeons and Dragons had that incident were somebody leaped to their death and overnight, the role-playing game was evil. Then the media had to get a hold of the books and point out the devils,demons and daemons in it.

                          If demons enter the mainstream, oh wait, that's cute, that is just fine and dandy. How many little girls do you see trick-or-treating with a pitch-fork and devil costume. Hey folks, it's the Devil! You can't get any more devil-like than that! :lol:

                          "With a deep, not-unhappy sigh, Elric prepared to do battle with an army." (Red Pearls)
                          - Michael Moorcock

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lemec
                            If demons enter the mainstream, oh wait, that's cute, that is just fine and dandy. How many little girls do you see trick-or-treating with a pitch-fork and devil costume. Hey folks, it's the Devil! You can't get any more devil-like than that! :lol:
                            Very true. I mean, for 364 days anything and everything thats Satanic (be it from Iron Maiden lyrics down to D&D) is viewed evil. But come Halloween, its free for all, play "Number of the Beast" as loud as you want, Pastors dress like the Enemy of Mankind, sex, pranks, and debauchy, etc etc

                            " Don't worry, its A-OK to be Satan one day outta of the year! You'll not burn in hell for it! "

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Demos99 said:
                              All I know is that when I was growing up in Britain in the 1970s if we 'observed' Halloween at all - and mostly we didn't and very few of my friends did either - it was mostly limited to a party where we played games like 'apple bobbing' and 'pin the tail on the donkey'. We certainly didn't go out 'trick or treating', which I'm sorry to say I do see as an 'American tradition' we've (unfortunately) inherited over here in recent years. Anyway, in Britain our big 'autumnal celebration' comes 5 days later on Bonfire Night.
                              The Celtic connection is probably exemplified by the fact that, when I was growing up in Scotland in the 70s, Hallowe'en was one of the big festivals. Yes we'd duck for apples, and try to eat scones smeared with treacle hung up on bits of string, but we also went out "guising" - basically trick or treating but in a less commercial and less malicious form. Kids dressed up in home-made costumes of the scary variety, and carrying lanterns carved from TURNIPS (swedes) (!) (not pumpkins, which I never saw unitl I was in my 20s) and went from door to door, with a rehearsed party piece, either a song, a poem, a magic trick, whatever. In return, traditional favours were toffee, toffee apples, "tablet" (sugary / condensed milk confection), nuts. Of course, we all wanted Mars bars and Marathons (Snickers), but then we never know what's good for us at the time! The idea that if people didn't open their doors to us a trick would be played isn't something I can remember.

                              Bonfire night is less of a deal in Scotland. I think the answer is probably that they are both derived from a feast to celebrate (or not) the onset of winter - calorific food / fire / warding off spirits (including the dreaded Pope).

                              Winter festivals have a real significance in the north of Europe which probably doesn't translate well to southern Europe or California, other than in the sense that they give reason for a holiday. That would do for me! :D [/b]
                              \"Killing me won\'t bring back your apples!\"

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