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Latin Translation and correction needed

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  • Latin Translation and correction needed

    what is the correct phrase

    cum se cum sa

    and what does it mean.

    I'm bringing up nothing at Google.
    The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

  • #2
    Berry, what's the context?

    cum seems to mean 'with' in English (although it may also mean 'when', as in

    'Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt' - When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults).

    I can't find any translations for 'se' or 'sa' though.
    _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
    _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
    _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
    _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by demos99
      I can't find any translations for 'se' or 'sa' though.
      Of course, per se = 'by itself'

      So we'd have 'With itself with [sa]'
      _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
      _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
      _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
      _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

      Comment


      • #4
        I think it means "it comes it goes"
        The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think this is Latin. I think it is phonetically transcribed French.

          The expression is "Comme ci, comme أ§a." Literally, "like this, like that," it figuratively means something like "so-so."

          LSN

          Comment


          • #6
            LSN is correct. Someone in France might ask you how you are doing (comment allez-vous?) and you might reply "I'm well" (Je fais bien) or you might say, "I'm so-so" (Comme ci, comme أ§a). You might also, for that matter, say, "Life sucks" (la vie suce) though the meaning would likely be lost in translation. :D

            J'avais pratiquأ© mon franأ§ais. Est-il أ©vident?
            "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
            --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

            Comment


            • #7
              David (demos) evidently knows Latin. He might know some French, but I'll bet his attention was so strongly directed on trying to translate the Latin words, that he didn't try it out phonetically.

              I read Latin well-enough, but I know French a hell of a lot better. When I mentally repeated the phrase Berry supplied, an alarm bell went off, and I snapped to the fact that it was a French phonetic transcription.

              I'll bet others have had the experience, where they were listening to something with the thought that it was one language, and not understand, only to discover that the person was speaking a "different" language. It's funny when you speak this "different" language, too. I described the situation to mordenkainen once by observing that it's as if there is a linguistic selector switch in the brain: if it's switched one way, we don't necessarily understand something that we would fully comprehend if the selector switch was set differently.

              The human mind is funny sometimes.

              LSN

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
                David (demos) evidently knows Latin. He might know some French, but I'll bet his attention was so strongly directed on trying to translate the Latin words, that he didn't try it out phonetically.
                Funny you should notice that, LSN. I did indeed do Latin at school (over 20 years ago now) but I had to resort to the Internet to help me quite a bit this time. I did consider whether there might have been some phonics going on (hence why I asked for the context - was the source printed or verbal?) but although I studied French for a lot longer than Latin I'm always let down by my pronunciation of French words.

                I think it stems in part (in main?) from the fact that English words are often pronouced as they're spelt (exceptions like Leicester and Glouscester apart ;)) whereas French often contains 'silent' letters - like 'et', which is pronouced more like 'air' than like 'ate' iirc - so I always struggled with words I didn't know although I can/could read it reasonably well.

                My daughter is starting to learn French at school now and as I'm the only parent with a qualification in the subject (albeit right at the lower extremities of what constituted a Pass in my day) I'm expect to help her with her homework.

                The poor mite doesn't stand a chance. :lol:
                _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I took 2 years of English vocabulary studies in High School. We studied Latin and Greek a semester each in the advanced class. Cum always throws me off. I don't know a lick of French thus intensifying my ad hominem certainty that what I was looking for was Latin.
                  The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Berry Sizemore
                    Cum always throws me off. I don't know a lick of French...
                    Erm... isn't there an 'adult' forum here where you can post these sorts of messages, Berry? :P
                    _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                    _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                    _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                    _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by demos99
                      Originally posted by Berry Sizemore
                      Cum always throws me off. I don't know a lick of French...
                      Erm... isn't there an 'adult' forum here where you can post these sorts of messages, Berry? :P
                      :cowbell:
                      The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by demos99
                        Originally posted by LSN
                        David (demos) evidently knows Latin. He might know some French, but I'll bet his attention was so strongly directed on trying to translate the Latin words, that he didn't try it out phonetically.
                        Funny you should notice that, LSN.
                        I'm clairvoyant. Ask Perdix and S. Ombre. :lol:


                        Originally posted by demos99
                        I did indeed do Latin at school (over 20 years ago now) but I had to resort to the Internet to help me quite a bit this time. I did consider whether there might have been some phonics going on (hence why I asked for the context - was the source printed or verbal?) but although I studied French for a lot longer than Latin I'm always let down by my pronunciation of French words.
                        French phonetics are challenging for a lot of English speakers.

                        Originally posted by demos99

                        I think it stems in part (in main?) from the fact that English words are often pronouced as they're spelt (exceptions like Leicester and Glouscester apart ;)) whereas French often contains 'silent' letters - like 'et', which is pronouced more like 'air' than like 'ate' iirc - so I always struggled with words I didn't know although I can/could read it reasonably well.

                        My daughter is starting to learn French at school now and as I'm the only parent with a qualification in the subject (albeit right at the lower extremities of what constituted a Pass in my day) I'm expect to help her with her homework.

                        The poor mite doesn't stand a chance. :lol:
                        :lol:

                        If you run into problems, feel free to ask for help. It is possible that between mordenkainen, S. Ombre, and me, we can help you resolve any questions or problems of this sort.

                        The translation mordenkainen & I did for his most recent short story is supporting evidence for my assertion. We sort of know both of these languages. They are rather different. As mordenkainen and I remarked during the translation task, although both Indo-European, clearly the Germanic and Romance languages went in different directions on a number of points. The slang differences certainly bear this out.

                        LSN

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Berry Sizemore
                          I took 2 years of English vocabulary studies in High School. We studied Latin and Greek a semester each in the advanced class. Cum always throws me off.
                          Don't blame you there - it can mean any of "when", "with", "although", "whenever" and "since", depending on whether the verb's in the indicative or subjunctive, and whether or not there's an ablative noun nearby. Fun!
                          Arma virumque cano.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, since the topic has been brought up; I could use some help with congagating some latin.

                            I developed a "family crest" at my brother's request a few years back which he had tattooed on his back. My dad and my other brother have also gotten it since. That just leaves me, and knowing that the idea of a "family crest" isn't really all that accurate, I'm turning it into more of a personal herald. I'll not go into the description of the herald here, but I have drawn a personal banner to string beneith it. I decided to go with three words/ideas that are very important to me and could use some help getting them in the proper forms.

                            Life
                            Loyalty
                            Literature.

                            Right now I have something like "Vitas, Fidelis, Literas" I'm wondering if those are the proper forms. I have an example of a herald with "Fidelis" on it, so I'm fairly certain that one is correct. Then again, there seems to be a history with people using the incorrect word or form with heraldry, so I'd like to be completely confident in its accuracy. I have seen "Literas" as "Literitas," and of course I've seen "vitae" in a number of different forms.

                            Any help?
                            "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
                            --Thomas a Kempis

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In the nominative or vocative (the Latin forms are the same - so don't worry about that), you'll be wanting:

                              Vita
                              Fides*
                              Litterae

                              *Fidelitas is also acceptable, but its meaning is specific to inter-personal relationships - Fides has a much broader range of meaning.

                              Just so you know exactly what's going on your back...

                              Vita
                              Fides
                              Fidelitas
                              Litterae - 'littera' = 'letter', therefore 'litterae' means anything and everything from 'letters' to 'a letter' to 'literature'.

                              The 'small' letters only came into use in the middle ages - so if you were writing in classical Latin, you'd want:

                              VITA
                              FIDES
                              LITTERAE

                              Also note, 'V' is pronounced as the English 'W' or 'U', and when in lower-case, is written as 'u'.

                              FYI, 'fidelis' is the adjectival form - 'faithful/loyal/trustworthy', 'literas' and 'vitas' are both accusative plural forms.


                              Hmmm.... actually, for exclamations, the accusative is usually used - in this case: Vitam, Fidem/Fidelitatem, Litteras. Not sure what standard heraldic practise is - nominative or accusative.
                              Arma virumque cano.

                              Comment

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