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New European Anthem

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  • Mikey_C
    replied
    Maybe I'm one of the prejudiced. Unfortunately I think that the interests of money and big business will prevail over art, culture and ideas. Hopefully I shall be proved wrong.
    (The good thing about being a pessimist is - you can never be disappointed, only pleasantly surprised )

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  • Rymdolov
    replied
    Originally posted by M-A_19
    excuse me if I'm a bit defensive.
    That's ok. Sorry for being so offensive. Money spent on art is usually money well spent, in my view. I just thought of what the reactions to this would be where I live and thought about how hard it will be to convince people that there are actually good sides to the EU. This project will confirm people's prejudices, which is sad. Well, well...

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  • M-A_19
    replied
    :roll: bugger. I forgot that the piece isn't available yet, sorry for evangelising before anyone can hear it.

    It will be performed tonight however at La Raffinerie (Rue de Manchester straat 21 - Brussels), along with a video piece, part of the Net Days festival of electronic art.

    I imagine it will be available on either Scanner's or the british council's site after that. I do have a tape I did off the radio if anyone is interested ;)

    there's been only negative comments about this in the UK (what?, spending money on the Arts and Europe?!,disgusting!) so excuse me if I'm a bit defensive.

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  • L'Etranger
    replied
    Yes, Rymdolov, I think it is an irreversable process, and we are part of it, so we better not leave the steering mechanisms to the "others".
    Yes, where are the European borders going to be? Good question. 25 years ago with 12 Member states it was all much easier to define. While I would love to let in the Russian people, I would very much like to keep out their extremely brutal and rough mafia ... others worry their heads off because of the Muslims if Turkey joins, many Swedes are very upset because of Eastern European gangs fighting among themselves IN SWEDEN, the Germans were long concerned they'd have to harbour the vast majority of immigrants, now they worry that their own companies outsource the work to cheaper factories with nearly as skilled, cheaper workers in the Chech Republic, Hungary or Poland. Many worries, many things to solve, but it is the world we are living in. And finally, back to the thread, culture can help too, MA-19 ist right, I think.

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  • Rymdolov
    replied
    Originally posted by LEtranger
    You can get Bella Ciao at http://www.chambre-claire.com/PAROLES/Bella-Ciao.htm
    Hehehe ...!

    What, a "Mini-USA"! No that we don't want! And it can't be intended:
    a) we're more than they are b) we have all the different languages and idiosycracies to get under one roof c) our borders with Asia and Africa can't be sealed off like the US borders (and even that doesn't work). d) the European history is completely different.
    Well, a macro-USA, then. :) I know that this isn't the intention but a) not everyone does b) regardless of the original intention, there can be tendencies to move in a different direction. I understand people who are wary of a project which seems to be aiming at building a super-state. No matter how many different nations and cultures will get along on the inside there will always be a place where Europe ends. What about those caught on the other side? The way I see it there are two sides to the European project. First there is the peace, trade, education and integration work within the Union. Second, there's the tendency to seal off the borders (formerly handled by German police with infrared cameras, now I guess the Polish police takes care of it). Remember that you can't create an "us" (whether it's done with music or with truncheons) without creating a "them".

    Originally posted by LEtranger
    It is all a work in progress, however! And I remember how, during the elections for the European Parliament, for instance our Swedish friends deplored the lack of interest of their people to participate which easily leads to radicals of the Right getting elected in to the EP. And yes, there is an ultra-rightist block in it which could steer things in the direction we don't want. We have to be watchful and have participate to the best of our capacities. Yes too, there is a wariness of the older, richer member states that people from poorer, Eastern countries will take advantage of the new situation, but such enormous transitions always take time, cost a lot and evأ©ntually will change our Europe as we know it.
    But we're moving ahead, and we're not shooting at each other like in the last 15 centuries or more!
    I was one of those friends! I agree with you that it's important not to give up trying to change things just because they're going the wrong way. This is my basic problem with large parts of the Swedish left: they're very good at seeing the problems connected with the EU, but their spine reaction seems to be that "we have to leave it before it's too late", instead of forming alliances with radicals in other European countries. However, I do understand their reluctance to participate in an election for a virtually power-less parliament. I did vote in the EP election, for two reasons: a) I didn't want the extreme right to receive the fat pay (not even counting corruption, here) given to MEPs and b) though I don't like much of what is going on in the Union at large, I am confident that Sweden, left to itself, would do no better and possibly worse.

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  • L'Etranger
    replied
    You are very right of course to remind us that this has to do with culture and that culture is an approach that often is ignored. Why the reactions went slightly off-track has, in a way, probably to do with the fact that we can't hear that anthem yet and that, again, the very word reminds one of something very outdated when people have very concrete problems. But yes, you are right., I'm sure.

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  • M-A_19
    replied
    Originally posted by LEtranger
    But we're moving ahead, and we're not shooting at each other like in the last 15 centuries or more!
    Yes, some of those 5th century shootings were nasty ;) bloody time-travellers! :)

    I really am suprised by the reaction to this thread. Yes it is important to build an inclusive Europe with equal rights for all. But aside from the fact that the couple of Euros tossed at "Scanner" to make the piece could have little impact on Europes social problems, you all seem to be ignoring the importance of culture in changing attitudes and uniting peoples.

    Scanner's real name is Robin Rimbaud, he lectures at the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester (almost a "REAL JOB"!) Students from all over Europe come to study at RNCM I often chat with them on the train as I commute to Manchester. I am always suprised at the level of respect artists like Scanner and British electronic music in general have on the continent, and likewise there is a healthy exchange of contintental artists visting Britain.

    It was Sweden's Roger Karmanik whose recordings first introduced me to the amazing possibilities of electronic music.

    The Majority of people have little interest in politics, in the end, it will be culture and sport that unites the European peoples, not what a group of politicians say as they sit around a table (particulary if they continue to be so ubelievabley bad at engaging the public over European integration). The nature of that united Europe will be decided by what ideas are prevalent in the wider society and art and music are far more important in deciding that than any treaty.

    projects of this kind (even as small and as trivial as this one ) will ALWAYS have my support.

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  • L'Etranger
    replied
    You can get Bella Ciao at http://www.chambre-claire.com/PAROLES/Bella-Ciao.htm
    Hehehe ...!

    What, a "Mini-USA"! No that we don't want! And it can't be intended:
    a) we're more than they are b) we have all the different languages and idiosycracies to get under one roof c) our borders with Asia and Africa can't be sealed off like the US borders (and even that doesn't work). d) the European history is completely different.
    It is all a work in progress, however! And I remember how, during the elections for the European Parliament, for instance our Swedish friends deplored the lack of interest of their people to participate which easily leads to radicals of the Right getting elected in to the EP. And yes, there is an ultra-rightist block in it which could steer things in the direction we don't want. We have to be watchful and have participate to the best of our capacities. Yes too, there is a wariness of the older, richer member states that people from poorer, Eastern countries will take advantage of the new situation, but such enormous transitions always take time, cost a lot and evأ©ntually will change our Europe as we know it.
    But we're moving ahead, and we're not shooting at each other like in the last 15 centuries or more!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mikey_C
    replied
    We're still waiting for the deluge of East European gypsies predicted by the "Daily Express" as well.

    "Bella Ciao" is an excellent song, by the way. I've got a CD of the Red Army Choir performing it. :twisted:

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  • Rymdolov
    replied
    Originally posted by M-A_19
    This is not like an official body being given a great lump of cash to create an official anthem (that was last time, when they came up with a slight reworking of "Ode to joy") this is just a single artist being commissioned to create a piece as an experiment.

    of course the money could have been spent on welfare, but it wouldn't have bought much!

    does not the music of 25 different countries in harmony move your cold rationalist soul just a little bit? ;)
    Maybe it would, if I could hear it. Anyway, I'm not going to break into the composer's house and drag him or her away from the piano. If people want to express their enthusiasm for a united continent through music, that's probably a good thing.

    LETranger: You make a good point, but the problem around my parts is that people see the EU as an attempt to build a mini-version of the United States, only with harsher border guards. This prevents them from seeing the good things that come out of the EU and turns the debate into a question of whether we shuld stay in the Union at all, rather than a question of how we're going to change the bad parts of the EU and keep the good ones. Anthems and flag-waving isn't going to help. But maybe I'm (symptomatically?) blinded by local circumstance, and if the flags can help prevent germany and France from quarelling then maybe it's worth it. I'm just a little scared of how things seem to be developing. The world needs more international cooperation, but it does not need a new super-state.

    Mikey_C: I guess this is what they mean when they say that MWM is full of "liberal back-slapping". It's a good thing that you're not a veggie, or it could have become really disgusting. :) I can't believe how the political establishment distrusts ordinary people (I know that neither term is very good). When the new member states were going to join the EU the Swedish social democratic prime minister talked about "social tourism", evidently claiming that thousands of unemployed Poles would come here to live on social welfare! He wanted less liberal rules on freemovement for the new mwأ©mber states during a transition period. Fortunately, the parliament voted against this and so far not a single case of "social tourism" has been seen, of course. How come people with a background among the lower classes suddenly start to think that all poor people are lazy bastards who have to be forced and intimidated to work, as soon as they get some wealth and power of their own? It's so sad.

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  • DiGiMac
    replied
    Originally posted by LEtranger
    Ciao bella, ciao
    Can't have that. It was the commie resistance fighter anthem during the Italian civil war at the end of WW2. Bloody reds getting into the EU too!

    Originally posted by LEtranger
    Oh, and the Can-Can part has to be performed by female members of the European parliament of course! That'll have an influence on who gets elected into this noble house.
    Cicciolina for Queen of Strasbourg! She was a porno star and Member of Parliament a few years back. This is what the people want! Topless ministers, lapdancing EuroMPs I can see it all now. It might do sod all for the national economies but at least Brussels and Strasbourg would become tourist attractions and start actually earning money instead of spending it.

    Leave a comment:


  • L'Etranger
    replied
    Well, here are my two Euro cents:

    Of course, there are graver matters than an anthem to address. However I endorse nearly everything that kicks down fences and makes us Europeans more entwined and more united. The resistance put up by France and Germany against the incredible pressure of the Bush administration to join in the War on Iraq wouldn't have happened 20 years, even 15 years earlier. It is a result of not totally unmerrited new self-confidence of a continent with over 400 miliion people!
    Now, an "anthem" seems awfully old-fashioned, but it is just the word in the end. Until now very often Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" was played to mark inter-European events, not inappropriately, but why not move on to something contemporary (ooops, couldn't hear the thing yet ...) that has to do with all of us. Look at the importance a banner or a hymn still has, how much politics are still being made by it. Even in Sweden: I don't think I saw ONE house that didn't have a flag pole with the Swedish flag flying. I personally can do with out it. But all moves to unite us more is better than no move.

    Personally I could envisage a mixture of Mozart, the "Can-Can" -tune , Ciao bella, ciao and the Skye-Boat song with a dash of Klezmer for good measure. Oh, and the Can-Can part has to be performed by female members of the European parliament of course! That'll have an influence on who gets elected into this noble house.

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  • Krimson
    replied
    Ohh - it has links to his site, with free music downloads! Free music is goodness.

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  • Mikey_C
    replied
    Originally posted by Rymdolov
    How about improving life conditions for all the millions of "illegal" immigrants living and working their asses off at low-paid or no-paid jobs that noone who's been born here in the rich part of the world would ever want? That would make a stronger case for internationalism than a bloody anthem, but that's just my opinion.
    Brilliant point, Rymdolov. :D Unfortunately the European Union hasn't got as much to do with internationalism as just being a big fortress to exclude the less privileged parts of the world. Some of the sanctimonious crap it spews really antagonises me.

    Take Objective 1 in Article 3 of the European Constitution; "The Union's aim is to promote peace, its values and the well-being of its peoples" :) Turn to Article 40; Objective 3 and see what's really going on: "Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities..." :x

    I am deeply concerned about "illegal" migrant workers. I attended a trade union conference on the issue at the TUC recently. Home Secretary David Blunkett was there, setting out his stall for compulsory ID cards as a solution to the "problem". I think that practically every trade unionist active on this issue would want full rights extended to all workers.

    The idea of someone "illegally" contributing to the economy by doing a hard day's work is quite bizarre to me. I have friends in this position. Blunkett wants to deny them even basic health care and turn them away from hospitals. Those hospitals are practically staffed by migrant workers nowadays!

    There you go, I'm letting off steam as well. I'm sure its a nice tune, though, couldn't be worse than "God save the Queen" (not the Pistols version!)

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  • M-A_19
    replied
    Originally posted by Rymdolov
    Interesting post, though, so don't take this burst of aggression personally, M-A_19. :)
    Don't worry, I won't :)

    This is not like an official body being given a great lump of cash to create an official anthem (that was last time, when they came up with a slight reworking of "Ode to joy") this is just a single artist being commissioned to create a piece as an experiment.

    of course the money could have been spent on welfare, but it wouldn't have bought much!

    does not the music of 25 different countries in harmony move your cold rationalist soul just a little bit? ;)

    Leave a comment:

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