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The Olympics Thread

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  • A_Non_Ymous
    replied
    Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
    Yes, it's sad to see a thread dedicated to the noble art of arm-chair sports hijacked by physically fit people.
    Yes, it was dreadful. And this hideous act was perpetrated in part by someone (i.e., me)
    who doesn't even watch arm-chair sports!

    Damn you and your chiselled abs!!! I'd complain more, but I don't want anyone kicking my door down and bitch-slapping me while I struggle to drag my bloated body out from beneath a duvet of empty crisp packets. [burp] :D

    D...
    Silly humor mode ON

    Hmm, it appears that PWV and I need to institute the MWM training program, with D
    as the lucky winner of our special inaugural offer.

    Of course, before we can work on the purely somatic factors, we must work on
    your assertiveness. You will be assertive! Either that, or you'll wish you'd never
    been born! If you claim that's already the case...

    Don't worry, Duncan, this'll hurt you more than it hurts--that's to say, it'll hurt us
    more than it hurts--just think beyond the pain of the moment, and think of all the
    personal satisfaction you'll receive when you've completed the training! Think of the
    posters in MWM you've wanted to pimp-slap all this time... Clearly, they're in for
    a world of hurt.

    In the meantime, lay in a good supply of Ibuprofen, and you need to discuss with
    your significant other your future needs for deep-tissue massage.. ;)

    LSN (of de Sade's Fitness Centers)

    Leave a comment:


  • DeeCrowSeer
    replied
    Yes, it's sad to see a thread dedicated to the noble art of arm-chair sports hijacked by physically fit people. Damn you and your chiselled abs!!! I'd complain more, but I don't want anyone kicking my door down and bitch-slapping me while I struggle to drag my bloated body out from beneath a duvet of empty crisp packets. [burp] :D

    D...

    Leave a comment:


  • A_Non_Ymous
    replied
    From simply discussing the Olympics, PWV and I managed to drag this tread, kicking
    and screaming, into martial arts. I never realized from his other postings that he was such
    an enthusiast. ;)

    We probably should've created a new forum for this topic -- truth in adverstising
    being a virtue. Then again, perhaps this topic has reached its natural conclusion.

    Could be. ;)

    LSN

    Leave a comment:


  • A_Non_Ymous
    replied
    Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
    The cool thing about Escrima (Arnis) is that the techniques can be used with two sticks, a stick and a knife, two knives, or even with two empty hands. The movements are all so seamless and flowing -- strike after strike non-stop -- that once you have mastered them, it doesn't really matter what's in your hands. I could fight with a rolling pin in one hand and a claw hammer in the other and it wouldn't make much difference other than adjusting for the length of the weapon.

    Plus, it's great to know if you frequent pool halls (which I don't). A pool cue broken in two makes a perfect set of sticks!
    It's a good style. Teaching this stuff for as long as I have has led me to become a
    "student," as it were, of various martial arts. So I've looked at Escrima in detail. I used
    to watch my daughter train in it, and being sort-of experienced in various somewhat
    similar disciplines, I picked up a lot of things about it, which I subsequently supplemented
    by reading and asking questions. (I've been out of school for years now, but am the
    eternal graduate student because of all that time in institutions of "higher learning.")
    So I know its history, its basic philosophy and approach. I agree it has a lot of
    things going for it, as do other "exotic" styles like Silat.

    However, no one has time to learn all the styles. At this point in my life, I'm going
    to keep working to perfect what I already know. (I'm getting focused again, because
    in class tonight, my teacher told me I need to take the next Dan test in TKD. Oh
    joy. ;))


    Originally posted by LSN
    When she sparred against my more linear Japanese style, it caused her major problems, I noticed. She'd never really seen it done that way.
    Man, nothing messes you up more than when your opponent doesn't fight the way you want them to! :lol: Monkey Kung Fu masters must really freak their opponents out!
    I've been fortunate that since my first martial art, I've had the opportunity to participate
    in mixed-style sparring. In Shotokan years ago, my teacher brought a couple of friends
    to spar with us during jiyu kumite. They were incredibly good at avoiding and
    countering our high-commitment attacks. We then discovered they were black belt
    Aikidokas. ;) That led us to think about designing strategies against such styles.

    A simple rule to follow: if you fight someone with a different style, don't let your
    opponent suck you into fighting his way. Force him to cope with your style, not
    vice versa. That's what I used, for example, against the Chinese staff style, to
    good effect. It has worked against other styles. You need to know what works
    for you, and just remember the circle of fighting styles (offense - defense - trap).
    When you deduce the goal of your opponent, you can decide which strategy to
    use.

    There's no "unbeatable" style, any more than there's an "unstoppable" fencing
    thrust. I suspect you know this already. It's not the style, it's the person.

    LSN

    Leave a comment:


  • PsychicWarVeteran
    replied
    The cool thing about Escrima (Arnis) is that the techniques can be used with two sticks, a stick and a knife, two knives, or even with two empty hands. The movements are all so seamless and flowing -- strike after strike non-stop -- that once you have mastered them, it doesn't really matter what's in your hands. I could fight with a rolling pin in one hand and a claw hammer in the other and it wouldn't make much difference other than adjusting for the length of the weapon.

    Plus, it's great to know if you frequent pool halls (which I don't). A pool cue broken in two makes a perfect set of sticks!

    Originally posted by LSN
    When she sparred against my more linear Japanese style, it caused her major problems, I noticed. She'd never really seen it done that way.
    Man, nothing messes you up more than when your opponent doesn't fight the way you want them to! :lol: Monkey Kung Fu masters must really freak their opponents out!

    Leave a comment:


  • A_Non_Ymous
    replied
    Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
    So, LSN, do you work with many weapons?
    Not a large number, no. Just bo (long staff), nunchaku, and Japanese short and
    long sword. You can't teach what you don't know, so I restrict myself to what
    I know how to use.

    In addition to working with the wooden practice sword (bokken) and a live
    sword (daito) for tameshigiri and kata, there's a company called Samurai Sports
    that produces a nice flexible "sparring" sword, called a "choken." I incorporated
    sparring with this into some of the routines, and the kids (and some adults)
    really like it.

    I have been training in Escrima, which is a surprisingly versatile fighting style (as Magellan found out first hand).
    I've handled the sticks, and can use them in a half-assed fashion, rather as if
    I'm using an undersized hanbo. My daughter studied Escrima (or Arnis de Mano,
    as it's also called) at another school. It is indeed effective. She once used it
    when another kid got mad at her and tried to hit her with an aluminum baseball
    bat: there was a pair of garden stakes lying nearby, she grabbed them, blocked
    the baseball bat a couple of times and delivered a strike to the aggressor's
    temple. He ran off crying -- not precisely a "manly" display. It was difficult
    explaining to his parents how he'd been hurt when he was the aggressor. ;)

    Of course, WHKD, being a form of Kung Fu, incorprates weapons of all kinds, though I have yet to move into that area.
    It takes a long time to master, too. One of my students trained in the long staff
    in a Chinese style. (She's ethnic Chinese, so it was an "asian pride" sort of thing.)
    She could do a lot of tricks, and the moves were very crowd-pleasing. When she
    sparred against my more linear Japanese style, it caused her major problems, I noticed.
    She'd never really seen it done that way. ;) But the style she used seemed very
    effective, and it's good exercise, too.

    LSN

    Leave a comment:


  • PsychicWarVeteran
    replied
    Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
    I picked up some tricks years ago from watching Bill Wallace that work well in this situation. Wallace threw snap kicks (speed! speed!) with his front leg. He threw side kick, roundhouse kick, and hook kick (we'd call it hoorio chagi) with the same motion. If he threw a side kick and the opponent tried to step behind him, he contiinued it as a hook kick; if they stepped to the other side, he turned it into a roundhouse kick.

    This works. The trick is to be "flexible" in one's approach. If you throw
    the side kick at the knee and they skip to the side to counter, you still
    take out the knee with a circular kick. Circular kicks are harder to dodge,
    as you know.

    You've probably worked out some of the principles of doing this already,
    but they can be extended to self-defense, too. ;)
    Yes, absolutely. WHKD, as I mentioned, utilizes a lot of knee and elbow strikes. When in close and using your knees, you might find your opponent is able, from time to time, to back away from you, out of the range of the knee strike. That's when it immediately becomes a snap kick or circular kick. The opponent is often surprised to feel a blow, having been so certain they escaped that knee! Of course, seamlessly following up with a stomp on the foot also tends to ilicit looks of shock. :twisted:

    Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
    THe stuff you're studying now complements
    TKD nicely.
    Tell me about it! That's why I'm so glad I started with TKD. The focus on perfect kicking is, I think, a great boon to any martial artist. Many martial arts have kicking unavoidably incorporated into them, but few concentrate on perfecting it the way TKD does.

    Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
    If you ever get a chance to take up Aikido or jiu jitsu (or Hapkido), you might find it interesting.
    I'm very interested in both Jiu Jitsu and Aikido. The 'dynamic sphere' concept of Aikido is endlessly fascinating and Jiu Jitsu, well, that's just how you win a street fight right there, plain and simple. When a little dude like Hoyce Gracie can make a behemoth like Ken Shamrock whimper and tap out, you know something's working like it should. Jiu Jitsu seems devastating.

    You know, according to Bruce Lee's wife, Linda, it was Jiu Jitsu Bruce used to win his famous, definitive battle to secure his right to teach Kung Fu to whomever he chose. She said something to the effect of, The fight was basically Bruce chasing the other guy around the room until he caught him took him down to the floor, and choked him out until he gave up.

    So, LSN, do you work with many weapons? I have been training in Escrima, which is a surprisingly versatile fighting style (as Magellan found out first hand).

    Of course, WHKD, being a form of Kung Fu, incorprates weapons of all kinds, though I have yet to move into that area.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kitsune
    replied
    I might also suggest "Sandman: The Dreamhunters" by Neai Gaiman, it's and excelent story involving a kitsune. I'm also fairly well read on tanuki and tengu.

    Leave a comment:


  • A_Non_Ymous
    replied
    Originally posted by Kitsune
    I was just being funny.
    See my opening disclaimer about virtue, etc. I figured that was the
    case -- either that, or you were possessed by a fox kami.

    Concerning foxes and your chosen screen name, I suspect you're
    aware that in traditional Japanese folklore, they're not precisely
    charged with approval. There's a reflection of this in Akira Kurosawa's
    famous transposition of King Lear -- you know the movie;
    it's called Ran.

    There's another whiff of opprobrium attached to fox kami in the
    long popular Japanese novel Musashi, by Eiji Yoshikawa; it's
    sort of the Japanese equivalent of Gone with the Wind in literary
    terms, but it's an entertaining book if for no other reason than the
    insight it provides into Japanese popular icons.

    LSN

    Leave a comment:


  • A_Non_Ymous
    replied
    Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
    Originally posted by LSN
    A circular kick to the knee, however, is effective if you're fast with the low roundhouse.
    Or those non-scoring side kicks we were talking about; they're also great at tearing up knees.
    That's classic karate. They are indeed effective, because they're fast, powerful,
    and (to someone not expecting them) surprising. The problem is that they're
    easy to side-step. I picked up some tricks years ago from watching Bill Wallace
    that work well in this situation. Wallace threw snap kicks (speed! speed!) with
    his front leg. He threw side kick, roundhouse kick, and hook kick (we'd call
    it hoorio chagi) with the same motion. If he threw a side kick and the opponent
    tried to step behind him, he contiinued it as a hook kick; if they stepped to the
    other side, he turned it into a roundhouse kick.

    This works. The trick is to be "flexible" in one's approach. If you throw
    the side kick at the knee and they skip to the side to counter, you still
    take out the knee with a circular kick. Circular kicks are harder to dodge,
    as you know.

    You've probably worked out some of the principles of doing this already,
    but they can be extended to self-defense, too. ;)

    Although, having studied WHKD for so long, I'm now inclined to come inside and use my knees and elbows. Unless, of course, I'm up against a TKD practitioner who won't let me inside.
    The is appropriate. If you are an effective close-in fighter, you can
    frustrate the defensive attempts of pure TKD. Hapkido is an "impure" form,
    in a sense, because in a way, it combines Aikido, TKD, and the finger locks
    and weapons curriculum of traditional Japanese ryua. Hapkido is in a sense
    a modern "synthetic" martial art, and that synthesis is a good one.

    TKD will work well against a Neanderthal fighting approach. However, some
    opponents aren't Neanderthals. THe stuff you're studying now complements
    TKD nicely. If you ever get a chance to take up Aikido or jiu jitsu (or Hapkido),
    you might find it interesting.

    Warning: a lot of the stuff in Aikido and jiu jitsu is rough on the knees. That's
    one reason I don't participate in it too often anymore.

    LSN

    P.S. As I tell my students when I refuse to do certain maneuvres on the ground
    more than 4 or 5 times, I'm not old, I'm superannuated. ;)

    One 16 year old student said to me last year, "Wow! I heard, you're like,
    47!" "That's right." "You're even older than my dad! It's like, how do you
    do this stuff at your age?" "Well, I get the people in the rest home to dress
    me in my dobok and help me into my motorized wheelchair; then I go to the
    dojang. Simple, eh?"

    Leave a comment:


  • Kitsune
    replied
    I took Tae Jitsu in College. So I learned the trows and wrist locks. It would be nice to relearn some of that stuf.

    Leave a comment:


  • PsychicWarVeteran
    replied
    Originally posted by LSN
    A circular kick to the knee, however, is effective if you're fast with the low roundhouse.
    Or those non-scoring side kicks we were talking about; they're also great at tearing up knees.

    Although, having studied WHKD for so long, I'm now inclined to come inside and use my knees and elbows. Unless, of course, I'm up against a TKD practitioner who won't let me inside.

    Originally posted by LSN
    My teacher and I spend at least one third of the class on self-defense. This includes a lot of ground work, submission holds, hand strikes, and the like.
    Master Park taught us self defense, too, don't get me wrong. And I am very thankful to have acquired the high-kicking ability. I truly believe TKD was the best place to start.

    This conversation of ours has me seriously thinking about going back to see Master Park. I'm sure another three years under him would earn me my il dan! :)

    Leave a comment:


  • A_Non_Ymous
    replied
    Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
    Well, let's see... I advanced up through Dan Bo, which master Park informed me was Black Belt, though not first degree. When I asked what was required to get my first Dan, he said I just needed to take the test and, of course, pass it.

    I came to find out that the only differences between my 1st Dan test and the Dan Bo test I had just taken were an extra breaking set, an extra form, and a $400 testing fee. (The Dan Bo test was very difficult; I threw up by the end.)
    No kidding. The tests are notorious for doing that to people. I've
    had teenagers who appeared to be in good shape have problems
    with it.




    Master Park had been more than fair with his rates, so I couldn't complain about the testing fee, but fact was I didn't have the extra dough.
    Some schools offer what's called "regional certification." The people at the
    Kukkiwon combine a desire to sell intangibles with a well-developed cupidity
    that makes the il dan certification a bit pricey, to say the least. Regional
    ceritification typically runs about a third of the price of Kukkiwon certification.

    I recommend that to my students who have a hard time with the price.

    To make things worse, I was moving to a town some thirty miles away. So, I sadly said goodbye to my Kwan Jang Nym and went on my way. (I have since thought about going back to visit him, but I know he'll expect to see Koryo poomse, and I don't think I remember it well enough to do him honor. :oops:
    Koryo is tied with Taegeuk Pal Jang as my favorite poomse. There are moves
    in Koryo that are part of my fundamental fighting style, which is why I find it
    congenial. A pity you didn't "finish," but one can't argue with your reasons.

    I competed all through my training in both forms and fighting and occasionally won (trophies for forms, medals for fighting). Those trinkets are stashed away somewhere, though, along with my belt.
    Hope they don't get lost. I sometimes think there's a special dimension to where all the
    things we've stored away, then can't find again, migrate. If you find that place, and
    can find my black belt from Shotokan, let me know. ;)

    What I had originally wanted to learn was a fighting style, not a sport. TKD was an excellent start into martial arts and I greatly wish I could have stayed with Master Park and gained the skill in fighting that Hap Ki Do has to offer. (I would never go for a dolio chagi in a street fight, if you know what I mean.)
    A circular kick to the knee, however, is effective if you're fast with the low roundhouse.
    Head-high roundhouse kicks are effective in such situations as second or third kicks,
    not first, unless you're unbelievably fast. The chance of missing makes them a bit
    problematic, too.

    TKD is often taught as a sport these days. My teacher and I spend at least one
    third of the class on self-defense. This includes a lot of ground work, submission
    holds, hand strikes, and the like. It also requires us to teach breakfalls as in
    Hapkido. Hapkido has a very large syllabus, though, and we don't teach many of
    the things in it. That would take 5 days a week, which for us volunteers, is a little
    too much. :)

    LSN

    Leave a comment:


  • PsychicWarVeteran
    replied
    Well, let's see... I advanced up through Dan Bo, which master Park informed me was Black Belt, though not first degree. When I asked what was required to get my first Dan, he said I just needed to take the test and, of course, pass it.

    I came to find out that the only differences between my 1st Dan test and the Dan Bo test I had just taken were an extra breaking set, an extra form, and a $400 testing fee. (The Dan Bo test was very difficult; I threw up by the end.)

    Master Park had been more than fair with his rates, so I couldn't complain about the testing fee, but fact was I didn't have the extra dough.

    To make things worse, I was moving to a town some thirty miles away. So, I sadly said goodbye to my Kwan Jang Nym and went on my way. (I have since thought about going back to visit him, but I know he'll expect to see Koryo poomse, and I don't think I remember it well enough to do him honor. :oops:

    I competed all through my training in both forms and fighting and occasionally won (trophies for forms, medals for fighting). Those trinkets are stashed away somewhere, though, along with my belt.

    What I had originally wanted to learn was a fighting style, not a sport. TKD was an excellent start into martial arts and I greatly wish I could have stayed with Master Park and gained the skill in fighting that Hap Ki Do has to offer. (I would never go for a dolio chagi in a street fight, if you know what I mean.)

    It took me three years to reach Dan Bo but I was never discouraged by the time and practice that was required. Master Park, an eighth-degree Grandmaster, was such an inspiration and such a phenominal treacher that I was never bored or disheartened.

    All my belt promotions are registered with Kukkiwon. And if I may brag: Master Park's master is Kyo Yoon Lee, president of the World Tae Kwon Do Federation. Truly, I learned TKD from one of the best!

    Here's his bio from his website:
    http://www.masterparkstkd.com/masterPark.html

    Leave a comment:


  • A_Non_Ymous
    replied
    Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
    I train now in a form of Kung Fu known as Wun Hop Kuen Do which is about as far away from TKD as one can get. There is A LOT of sweeping, elbowing, kneeing; it's brutal. Sparring takes on a whole new meaning once the pads are gone and the rules allow for shots to the kidney! I'm 37 and I often times feel like I'm getting too old for this stuff. :lol: Ever feel that way, LSN?
    PWV, I meant to add, I hope you completed your basic TKD training up to
    1st degree black belt before moving to a new martial art.

    A lot of people stop before they get there, discouraged
    by how much time it takes, or they lose their motivation, or they just lose
    confidence. The national statistics for people who complete their black belts
    is, as they guy said about alludium phosdex in "Duck Dodgers in the
    25th-and-a-half Century", "alarmingly low." :-] The % of those who complete
    the black belt is smaller than 1%. Not good. I go to a lot of trouble to keep
    people moving forward when they get to about blue or red belt. That's when
    a lot of them give it up.

    Of course, I don't teach at a commerical TKD academy. My teacher and I are
    volunteers, who accept no money for the instruction we provide. Commercial
    TKD academies do it differently. They cost a lot of money, too. :-] It's expensive
    enough to file the paperwork with the Kukkiwon in Korea, I thought. I look on
    it as a chance to get a work out, and teach people at the same time. Charging
    money for teaching TKD? I understand the notion, but I can't see myself doing
    it.

    I've heard remarks from people at commercial TKD studios to the effect that our
    students get what they pay for. I'd ask, why do our students do so well against
    most of theirs? Perhaps we've just got better students. :) ;)

    LSN

    Leave a comment:

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