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Are we stuck with capitalisim?

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  • pixi
    pixi
    • Jan 2008
    • 187

    Are we stuck with capitalisim?

    As a youngster i was quite radical and allways hoped there would be a better system not based on greed and money, now capitalisim is on its knees no one seems to want to kick it in the head, why is this? and where are the 21st century revoloutinaries?
  • Jolanthus Trel
    Jolanthus Trel
    Apprentice wordsmith
    Jolanthus Trel
    Apprentice wordsmith
    • Sep 2005
    • 914

    #2
    Yes, but hopefully a more regulated capitalism will rise from this and be more beneficial to all.

    Personally I'd like to run a benevelant dictatorship.

    The revolutionaries are all to impatient these days. My friend considers himself a revolutionary, but he's nothing but a poser. he thinks himself a communist but his personal goals involve too much money for him to be a communist.

    What are your ideas?
    Mutant Ill-Tempered Sea Bass Player

    Comment

    • Pietro_Mercurios
      Pietro_Mercurios
      Only Slightly Unbalanced
      Pietro_Mercurios
      Only Slightly Unbalanced
      • Oct 2004
      • 5823

      #3
      I doubt that capitalism is dead, just yet. But, hopefully, the days are over for the 'free market' variety, where governments are encouraged to hand over the keys of the bank to daylight robbers and then to turn their collective backs, whilst the vaults and safety deposit boxes are rifled and emptied.

      Comment

      • Kyrinn S. Eis
        Kyrinn S. Eis
        Psychwar Vet
        Kyrinn S. Eis
        Psychwar Vet
        • Aug 2007
        • 2585

        #4
        Originally posted by pixi View Post
        As a youngster i was quite radical and allways hoped there would be a better system not based on greed and money, now capitalisim is on its knees no one seems to want to kick it in the head, why is this? and where are the 21st century revoloutinaries?
        I believe that the first, easy-replacements to rise after Capitalism being kicked in the head are generally much more frightening to those who lived through periods where Capitalism was broken-down. If for no other reason, I think the West will require a more forceful blow to its head than the mere option of replacing a system that has 'worked' for a while -- at least within recent memory of those who fought to see Capitalism survive over and opposed so-called Communism, and Techno-Fascism.

        Out of curiosity, pixi, which would be your top three picks for a new system?


        I know I have my faves.
        Ani Maamin B'emunah Sh'leimah B'viyat Hamashiach. V'af al pi sheyitmahmehah im kol zeh achake lo b'chol yom sheyavo.

        "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Phillip K. Dick

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        • Groakes
          Groakes
          badseed
          Groakes
          badseed
          • Jan 2005
          • 2512

          #5
          Capitalism has seduced the young through consumerism with the lie that pleasure = happiness and thus happiness can be bought. Unfortunately consumerism only "works" where supply and demand are both infinite. They may have the demand side sown up, but the supply side is going to come crashing down - and maybe real soon too. What people have failed to realise is that the Free Market is not free. There are always impacts and influences outside of the market - even ignoring government and legislature - and the balance between buyer and seller is never equal.

          Personally I blame the economists. They seem to have convinced the world that everything must be run with reference to an economic model. Capitalism "defeated" communism because communism tried to fight capitalism at an economic level.

          Perhaps one day we will realise that any "ism" is a trap....
          Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker.
          Bakunin

          Comment

          • Shane
            Shane
            Sailor on the Seas of Fate
            Shane
            Sailor on the Seas of Fate
            • Dec 2008
            • 50

            #6
            Originally posted by Groakes View Post
            Perhaps one day we will realise that any "ism" is a trap....
            my cynical take on this is that most of these isms are all well and good (some maybe are more attractive on paper than others) but that they all have the fatal flaw of needing humans to run/implement them and most of the people driven enough to get into a position where they can influence things are too easily corruptible and selfish so that which ever ism is chosen in optimism and hope it will end up serving the few at the expense of the majority.
            Currently reading:

            Comment

            • pixi
              pixi
              • Jan 2008
              • 187

              #7
              I fear we are struck with it, all encompassing global capitalisim, i used to be an anarchist but came to the conclusion that it was based on a naive view of human nature, perhaps capitalisim reflects human impulses most closely, a shame, i hope im wrong, i vote green now which seems the sanest thing to do though fairly pointless

              Comment

              • Kyrinn S. Eis
                Kyrinn S. Eis
                Psychwar Vet
                Kyrinn S. Eis
                Psychwar Vet
                • Aug 2007
                • 2585

                #8
                ......

                yeah, i'd have to agree with your sentiments, pixi.
                Ani Maamin B'emunah Sh'leimah B'viyat Hamashiach. V'af al pi sheyitmahmehah im kol zeh achake lo b'chol yom sheyavo.

                "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Phillip K. Dick

                Comment

                • opaloka
                  opaloka
                  digital serf 41221z/74
                  opaloka
                  digital serf 41221z/74
                  • Jun 2006
                  • 3746

                  #9
                  When I feel optomistic I like to think that humans have two natures, and right now we happen to live with a system that exploits and encourages the less noble nature.

                  Comment

                  • Talisant
                    Talisant
                    Champion of the Balance
                    Talisant
                    Champion of the Balance
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 1299

                    #10
                    Nothing wrong with small "c" fair trade capitalism (rapacious usury and other "unfair" trade practices would need to be addressed of course), then the challenge would be to re-instill/install and encourage it to whatever degree is possible at the local/somewhat personally manageble, transactional level.

                    Mike mentions it in a current Q & A thread:

                    "I've been wondering if a new (or old anarchist/libertarian) model might begin to dominate at least Western economic thinking, backed by legislation, where smaller and more flexible is better than bigger and less manoueverable -- i.e. smaller banks, finance houses, businesses, government and so on all under a general consensus. The US and the EU seem well positioned to achieve this through diminished Federal government, greater state sovereignty under a few agreed rules (including extended anti-trust -- as it were -- laws). Reduction of French agri-businesses, American and British financial houses etc. etc. Hell, it might even affect WalMart! If China and India also followed this reverse of recent trends, we might see a general improvement in both variety and individual liberty. Of course, I'm not exactly a political expert, just an optimist who thinks out of crisis can come positive action -- maybe something a little more ceative than we've seen so far. I'll be interested to see how a return to core American values (which I see as core anarchist values!) might guide such a reversal. I won't go on, because I haven't really thought this through much. Any thoughts ?"
                    "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

                    Comment

                    • zilch
                      zilch
                      Hisashiburi
                      zilch
                      Hisashiburi
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 648

                      #11
                      An MP3 player is only as good as the music it plays, but for the capitalist the latest player is always better, even when the content is recycled pap. I think this business model is running out of steam.
                      http://final-frame-final.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

                      • L'Etranger
                        L'Etranger
                        Veteran Moorcockista
                        L'Etranger
                        Veteran Moorcockista
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 4772

                        #12
                        Capitalism is too often equated with Democracy. And that's a mistake. I am all for the latter, but have restrictions towards the former. China has capitalism, but no democratic instances check to check it.
                        The number of people who have died of hunger under "Capitalism" roughly equated those who died und Communism, so I doubt that I want the choice purely between the two.

                        I favour some sort of measures to ensure that a capitalistic ecomony doesn't simply work on the basis of expolitation, but has a "conscience" of sorts. Germany's economy (with many flaws) did work thus, enabling the populace a certain participation in her industry's flourishing after WW2 -
                        (Wikipedia article on Social market economy):
                        The term “Social market economy” is still the common economic basis of most political parties in Germany and a commitment to some form of social market economy was present in the European Union Constitution (now in limbo following the referenda in France and the Netherlands).
                        Google ergo sum

                        Comment

                        • opaloka
                          opaloka
                          digital serf 41221z/74
                          opaloka
                          digital serf 41221z/74
                          • Jun 2006
                          • 3746

                          #13
                          I don't know how they got us equating capitalism with democracy... capitalism started with authoritarian regimes financing trade expeditions, and corporations are inherently un-democratic and in the end plutocratic.

                          Comment

                          • L'Etranger
                            L'Etranger
                            Veteran Moorcockista
                            L'Etranger
                            Veteran Moorcockista
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 4772

                            #14
                            Originally posted by opaloka View Post
                            I don't know how they got us equating capitalism with democracy... capitalism started with authoritarian regimes financing trade expeditions, and corporations are inherently un-democratic and in the end plutocratic.
                            Exactly.
                            But during the "Cold War" and later you were usually confronted with the choice of being either pro Capitalism (="The West") or pro Communsism/Socialism.
                            Google ergo sum

                            Comment

                            • opaloka
                              opaloka
                              digital serf 41221z/74
                              opaloka
                              digital serf 41221z/74
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 3746

                              #15
                              Oh yeah, that great tool FEAR. That's how they did it.

                              Comment

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