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    Allah or Jesus?
    by Rick Mattes

    Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.
    During the training session there was a presentation by three
    speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.
    I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.
    The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.
    After the presentations, time was provided for questions and
    answers.
    When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

    "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams
    and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

    There was no disagreement with my statements and, without
    hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"
    I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All
    followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"
    The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command
    to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the
    cookie jar.
    He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
    I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
    The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you one more question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there, too?"
    You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.
    Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification'
    training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the
    Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.
    I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but
    with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts.
    This is a true story and the author, Rick Mattes, is a well-known leader
    in prison ministry.

  • #2
    Oh really?
    Here's a message for Mattes and all who see the world "one-sided"...

    I view that message as religious Right-wing propoganda. The murder of infidels is not the belief of all muslims.
    To spread that message is to spread a "half-truth." Ignorance is the downfall of the USA, if not all of humanity.
    What's closer to the truth is...
    Christianity is no better than any other religion out there.
    In fact it may be even worse than some, if not most.
    (What makes Christianity better than any other religion out there like Buddhism, Shinto, or even Scientology?)
    Many people have been tortured and murdered in the name of the Christian god throughout history.
    I don't disagree that "Muslims" who belive in the murder
    of infidels are crazy mofos, but hey, when I see a blatantly one-sided
    argument like that, I have a big problem with that. Two wrongs DO NOT
    make a right.

    Comment


    • #3
      Right on! I knew I would get a response like that

      Good job, LoE!

      Comment


      • #4
        The first sign that "Jesus or Allah?" is propoganda,
        is the title itself. It could be also titled "Jesus Vs. Allah."
        It's immediately putting into the reader's mind,
        "Which is better?" telling the reader that he or
        she needs to make a choice.
        (My choice is neither one, I choose not to choose religion.)

        The second sign:

        "I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All
        followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?'
        The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar." [<--Woot! Woot! Uh oh, my Internal Bullshit Detector is going off!]
        That statement clearly shows that there is no objectivity to this piece. That opinion is even stronger evidence that the point of view is skewed towards a Christian propoganda perspective. That "face expression change" may have never even occurred. The "well known guy in the prison ministry" may have seen this in his own mind alone.

        Propoganda debunked. Enough said. :)
        \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
        Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

        Comment


        • #5
          <schoolyard voice> Yeah, well... my God can beat up your God! </schoolyard voice>

          Come ON! I don't think there are enough grains of salt in the world to be taken with that BS story. If Mattes is a journalist, he should look for a new career, as this piece of crap was so dripping with bias I almost dismissed it entirely.

          Originally posted by Jerico
          That "face expression change" may have never even occurred.
          I suspect that it did not. Dude doesn't become an Imam by cowering haplessly before Christians! This story simply does not have the "ring of truth to it" as Judge Judy would say.

          Note: I am NOT a defender of Islam. IMO, Organized religion is a piece of shit -- all organized religion.
          "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
          --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

          Comment


          • #6
            The opiate of the masses - unless they also have TV!

            Comment


            • #7
              Don't know if this is original but the comedian Dylan Moran said that religion is a bit like 'who's got the biggest imaginary friend'.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LoE
                Christianity is no better than any other religion out there.
                In fact it may be even worse than some, if not most.
                (What makes Christianity better than any other religion out there like Buddhism, Shinto, or even Scientology?)
                Many people have been tortured and murdered in the name of the Christian god throughout history..
                Here's an example...

                http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_salem/index.html

                "The first to be accused were Tituba, Parris's Caribbean-born slave, along with Sarah Good and Sarah Osburn, two elderly women considered of ill repute. All three were arrested on February 29. Ultimately, more than 150 "witches" were taken into custody; by late September 1692, 20 men and women had been put to death, and five more accused had died in jail. None of the executed confessed to witchcraft."
                \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

                Comment


                • #9
                  And don't forget the Crusades, which the Christians of the time blamed on the Muslims.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is interesting...

                    Inquisition/Witch Hunts

                    http://www.summerlands.com/crossroad...e/inquisti.htm

                    "The Inquisition was an order of the Catholic Church, authorized to seek out and destroy religious dissent and unorthodox beliefs (heresy). Formed in the 13th century, it was part of the Church's increasingly violent suppression of religious discussion. In 1022 the Church began killing heretics, usually by burning them at the stake. Crusades began in the late 11th century, and were accompanied by pogroms against the Jews. The Inquisition appears in the 13th century, and in the early 14th the Church starts to call Crusades against heretics inside Europe, like the Cathars. This trend continued until the Reformation, when the Protestant churches defected from the Catholic Church.

                    The Witch trials were quite different. Around 1320, periodic panics swept central Europe. Some group of evil-doers was trying to poison the wells, to overthrow the Christian Church, to kill all Christians. The groups "involved" in this conspiracy changed. First it was Jews and lepers, then Jews and Moslems and lepers. Later still, Witches "joined forces" with the Jews. The Witch trials were a direct outgrowth of these rumor panics. (Carlo Ginzburg's _Ecstasies: Deciphering the Witches' Sabbat_ covers this in detail.)

                    As a side note, there's a lot of confusion about the Inquisition's role in the Witch trials.

                    The Inquisition did very little Witch hunting. Before the 14th century, the Inquisition was specifically *forbidden* from investigating charges of Witchcraft (Witches were "victims of Pagan superstitions", not heretics who sought to undermine the Church's teachings). From around 1300 - 1500 they did kill Witches, but not very many. As late as 1484, the author of the _Malleus Maleficarum_ complained that he couldn't get his fellow inquisitors to cooperate with his Witch hunts. By 1500 the Inquisition turned its attention to early Protestant groups. During the height of the Burning Times (1550-1650) the Inquisition only existed in two countries: Spain and Italy, both of which had low death tolls. The Spanish Inquisition in fact had the best acquital record, killing far less than 1% of all accused Witches!

                    So where does the image of the malevolent, Witch hunting inquisitor come from? From a forgery and from a common translation error...."

                    Really? I did not know this.
                    like Plant in "Stairway..." Oooooo Makes me wonder...
                    Witch or no witch, it's still killing in the name of the Christian god nevertheless.
                    \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                    Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Viya con dios
                      Go with God, my children...

                      http://www.youthontherock.com/viewtopic.php?t=1870

                      (This is where I go when I get tired of all the political stuff here.)

                      especially this one...

                      http://www.youthontherock.com/viewforum.php?f=12
                      \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                      Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

                      Comment

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