Healthcare System(s)

[opaloka]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/09/health...ort/index.html

Why Americans are dying earlier than their international peers

Despite spending more per person on health care than any other country, Americans are getting sicker and dying younger than our international peers -- a problem persisting across all ages and both genders, according to a new report.

[Lucid Sirius]

Lucid, maybe not so much when you buy Molsons. I was thinking about the organized crime supported by those tank fill-ups.

Ha! Of course. The Extraction Mafia.

[Wanderlust]

Lucid, maybe not so much when you buy Molsons. I was thinking about the organized crime supported by those tank fill-ups.

[Guzzlecrank]

Wanderlust, I'm shocked to hear you may live in a country "filthy with organized crime."

Whew! I thought that phrase was code for Brooklyn!

[Lucid Sirius]

President Richard Nixon was the first modern president to consider proposing national health care, taking a page from Franklin Roosevelt's ideas, ones which Dwight Eisenhower thought were pretty good, too. Oh, and so did Barry Goldwater. Call anyone of them a "socialist" and they'd have shot you in the ass.

Wanderlust, I'm shocked to hear you may live in a country "filthy with organized crime." Does this mean when I buy Molson I'm subsidizing the Canuck Mafia?

[Wolfshead]

As I stated, I'm writing it off. I don't want 'extended elder care' under the Obamacare socialist system, ever, and won't accept it. I frankly don't want any interaction at all with this horrendous unaffordable socialist boondoggle. I'm willing to do without or go to a Native shaman or, for that matter, a Haitian Serpent-and-Rainbow loa priest rather than accept Obama'care'. I've seen no socialist systems whatsoever that I'd consider worth the massive tax bleed they feed on. Thus I feel no remorse at rejecting all contact with any such system. I voted for third party candidates in revulsion at both Communist/Socialist influence in one major party and feudalist/theocrat/anti-wildlife influence in the other. If any of those neighbouring countries weren't already wrecked by Socialism, filthy with organised crime, or run by tin pot dictators and heretic theocrats, I'd consider moving...

Spoken like a man who has enjoyed good health and has never woken up and was unable to move half his body or has seen his finger joints swollen to the size of golf balls and unable to even wipe his butt properly. May you continue to enjoy good health so that your convictions are never put to the acid test.

BTW Malik, while I do agree with the ridiculous malpractice litigation that has gone on, it was Ronald Reagan, the great patron saint of conservatism, who instituted the law that required that hospitals be required to treat anyone regardless of standing, insured or uninsured, citizen or illegal. Now that sounds a lot more like socialism than "Obamacare"

[Wanderlust]

Of which "neighbouring countries" do you speak? You're in the US, right? So, there's only Canada and Mexico, and I'm pretty sure we haven't been "wrecked by socialism" or are "filthy with organized crime." Though as most countries we do have our share of the latter.

Oh yeah, we do as well have a "tin pot" dictator that goes by the tag of Prime Minister Harper, but he's more like a tea party kinda guy.

[MalikTous]

Dead medicine

As I stated, I'm writing it off. I don't want 'extended elder care' under the Obamacare socialist system, ever, and won't accept it. I frankly don't want any interaction at all with this horrendous unaffordable socialist boondoggle. I'm willing to do without or go to a Native shaman or, for that matter, a Haitian Serpent-and-Rainbow loa priest rather than accept Obama'care'. I've seen no socialist systems whatsoever that I'd consider worth the massive tax bleed they feed on. Thus I feel no remorse at rejecting all contact with any such system. I voted for third party candidates in revulsion at both Communist/Socialist influence in one major party and feudalist/theocrat/anti-wildlife influence in the other. If any of those neighbouring countries weren't already wrecked by Socialism, filthy with organised crime, or run by tin pot dictators and heretic theocrats, I'd consider moving...

[Wolfshead]

Malik,

Anyone who has read my blog over the last year know what I think of the "great capitalist medical system". All I have to say to you is don't lose your job, if your employer provides healthcare, and get a serious or chronic illness in anywhere close conjunction. If it happens you might take a different view of "Obamacare" since under it the insurance industry will not be able to deny you health care as they do now. Of course in worshipping at the altar of "pure" capitalism Congress decided to kill the public option of the bill so even tho the industry will have to offer you insurance no matter how sick you are there is no guarantee you will be able to afford it. Of course you can always arrange for a prepaid funeral just to cover any circumstances or get arrested so you get treatment in jail.

[Wanderlust]

why else would the Canadians line up to use USA hospitals rather than wait for long times to use second-rate Canadian socialist 'free' care?

This has been talked about to a great degree in these forums, and I'd ask you to cite your sources when making such charges. I live in Canada and rountinely have US relatives using Canadian addresses and medicare cards to come here for health care, as they pay nothing for the privlege; also, they pay no Canadian tax, so needless to say, they are part of the drain on our system.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/wo...in-canada.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-m..._b_215256.html

When Candians are using US health care, it's more often because they can afford it, and they don't want to wait for an operation in Canada.

Have fun with that Shaman.

[MalikTous]

Medic!

What I've seen so far is, in the USA, a good capitalist medical system in teh 60s go down in flames when the government stepped in and granted a bunch of phony, fraudulent, and frivolous malpractise suits, thus driving the overall cost of medicine way up. When I served in the Navy, I was unimpressed with the military medical system; 'free' care was often second rate and one of my friends died from poor quality care. Military care was adequate as battlefield medicine, but in port the capitalist hospitals were much better. Now these silly bugger Socialists -er, Democrats want to wreck the whole thing with their socialist medical program, and I consider it unacceptable and refuse to participate.

In my observations overseas while riding boats out of Spain, Scotland, Italy, and other ports, I saw how the socialist systems ranged from 'adequate' down past atrocious. I'd not want to go to a hospital in most nations featuring state-run medicine. Capitalism offers incentive - why else would the Canadians line up to use USA hospitals rather than wait for long times to use second-rate Canadian socialist 'free' care? I'd frankly rather use a Native shaman than Obamacare. The whole problem was caused by government intrusion, and it's going to fall apart at current rates. Will they draft people to play doctor? Will USA medical practise become a distant memory? Time will tell...

[Morgan Kane]

I gues every where in any western country is the same except USA ..... I remeber Mike Moore moovie on the subjct.

But from what i read everywhere also health and care spendings are more and more important and governements try to limit public insurance costs. In France our health system from reform to reform is going downhill.

French hospitals receive patients from UK who cannot bear to wait for urgent dideases but recently a personnadmitted in an emergency service died because there was no place in time in any public or private intitution ....

Governement explains that come not from a lack of places but from bad organisation.

What's true is that roughly from 1946 to 1976, with public welfare, health professionals benefited from an infinite market seen as infinitely solvable. Result is that health spending grew and prevention plumeted.

One can add that general public health and prevention plumeted also. Governements for instance, never did anything against junk food .... Industrials produce deliberately junk food studied to make betters sales and profits adding sugar and fats and salt ....

[thingfish]

Agree totally Valerian.
I stay periodically in the local hospital as im being treated for Huntingtons Disease and the doctors and nurses and other staff are completely professional.
They are always under pressure but just put their lip against it and get on with the job.
We are fortunate to have such an amazing health service.

[valerian]

There is still a lot of beurocratic red tape involved. A friend of mine from England was telling me how she needed an MRI scan but they wouldn't send her for an MRI until she'd had an x-ray. BUT they wouldn't give her an x-ray because they were worried it might affect her childbaring. You'd think at this point that they'd just send her for an MRI but nooo, she has to fly to the US to get one.

My experience in the British Health Service was anything but bureaucratic. I had a stroke April 2009 and was in hosptial for a week and the only bureaucracy I saw was the patient notes at the end of my bed. I never saw an administrator. I never had to fill in a form or anything. Just answered a few questions is all. The wards were not that modern but I had access my own personal telly (so I could watch the Champions League Semi Final) and the treatment from doctors, nurses etc was absolutely first class. And the follow up stuff since has been pretty cool too though I haven't need much help since. I just wish I didn't have to take these pills for the rest of my life ...

[Jolanthus Trel]

There is still a lot of beurocratic red tape involved. A friend of mine from England was telling me how she needed an MRI scan but they wouldn't send her for an MRI until she'd had an x-ray. BUT they wouldn't give her an x-ray because they were worried it might affect her childbaring. You'd think at this point that they'd just send her for an MRI but nooo, she has to fly to the US to get one.