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Osama Bin Laden

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  • Dorian-Hawkmoon
    Dorian-Hawkmoon
    Denizen of Moo Uria
    Dorian-Hawkmoon
    Denizen of Moo Uria
    • Aug 2008
    • 153

    Osama Bin Laden

    Where do you think he is now?
    15
    Long dead, and in hell
    33.33%
    5
    In a secret bunker plotting revenge on Zavahiri
    20.00%
    3
    He's been captured long ago by Bush who'll exhibit him soon
    0.00%
    0
    He's a fictional character played by an actor
    13.33%
    2
    Other (specify)
    33.33%
    5
    Dorian-Hawkmoon
    Denizen of Moo Uria
    Last edited by Dorian-Hawkmoon; 09-19-2008, 10:42 AM.
    Don't believe everything you hear, but not disbelieve anything, either
    Calanthe Har Aralis har Varr har Uigenna

    This is not the Tanelorn I was searching for
    Dorian Hawkmoon
  • hellbender
    hellbender
    Wizardry's my trade
    hellbender
    Wizardry's my trade
    • Apr 2004
    • 66

    #2
    I voted for secret bunker, stretching it to "on the run", although being on the run in the desert and needing dialysis treatment is a stretch of the imagination. Fictional character would have been my next choice since every image we see/hear translated related to him is textbook pulp villain material. Now if he had a really cool black suit that did the dialysis for him and gave him a menacing voice like, say, James Earl Jones, that would be scarier.

    If the US really wanted to get him I would hope that they could have by now. You are telling me that there aren't any black ops, behind-the-scenes, damn the Geneva Convention military organizations out there that could have dropped him like a sack of potatoes from 2000 yards? What does the CIA do exactly anyway?
    There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self.

    --Aldous Huxley

    Comment

    • thingfish
      thingfish
      sairfecht
      thingfish
      sairfecht
      • Sep 2007
      • 15756

      #3
      I had to vote other as i happen to know his address-

      15 Station road
      Dundee
      Scotland
      dd2 5tr

      [email protected]

      He's new in town and hasn't really had time to mix yet so im sure he would appreciate an email or two to while away the dreich scottish nights!!
      thingfish
      sairfecht
      Last edited by thingfish; 09-19-2008, 07:56 PM.
      "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

      Hunter S Thompson

      Comment

      • Dave Hardy
        Dave Hardy
        Proud to be a Citizen of Tanelorn
        Dave Hardy
        Proud to be a Citizen of Tanelorn
        • Dec 2007
        • 326

        #4
        He's in Waziristan, but not wherever the US military is frantically violating Pakistani sovereignty and causing civilian casualties.

        At least that's my guess about the whole affair. It does seem rather odd that Bush (who has authorized the cross border raids) appears bent on undermining the new, democratic government of Pakistan. Failure caused by US aggression will not bring in another pro-American strongman. Most likely it'll strengthen the Islamic Extremist-Pakistani Military Intelligence nexus and turn the whole country anti-US, instead of mostly anti-US.

        So why do it? Bush wants to get OBL before the November election and they know he's in Waziristan among people with strong ideological, religious and personal ties.
        Dave Hardy
        http://fireandsword.blogspot.com/

        My books: Crazy Greta, Tales of Phalerus the Achaean, and Palmetto Empire.

        sigpic

        Comment

        • Morgan Kane
          Morgan Kane
          Lost in the multiverse
          Morgan Kane
          Lost in the multiverse
          • Jun 2006
          • 1428

          #5
          In France, the only people interested by him make a satirical TV show called " Les guignols de l' info " ( The puppets of the news ) . Usually they show him with Omar in a place used by important and rich people sunbathing and joking around.

          Comment

          • Marca
            Marca
            Eternal Champion
            Marca
            Eternal Champion
            • Aug 2004
            • 2014

            #6
            I think he's dead, or we'd have heard a lot more of him since 9/11. By the way, can anyone verify the claim that footage supposedly of Bin Laden shown on TV in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 was not Bin Laden, but a lookalike? I vaguely remember seeing this...
            'You know, I can't keep up with you. If I hadn't met you in person, I quite honestly would NOT believe you really existed. I just COULDN'T. You do so MUCH... if half of what goes into your zines is to be believed, you've read more at the age of 17 than I have at the age of 32 - LOTS more'

            Archie Mercer to Mike (Burroughsania letters page, 1957)

            Comment

            • L'Etranger
              L'Etranger
              Veteran Moorcockista
              L'Etranger
              Veteran Moorcockista
              • Dec 2003
              • 4772

              #7
              Originally posted by Dave Hardy View Post
              He's in Waziristan, but not wherever the US military is frantically violating Pakistani sovereignty and causing civilian casualties.

              At least that's my guess about the whole affair. It does seem rather odd that Bush (who has authorized the cross border raids) appears bent on undermining the new, democratic government of Pakistan. Failure caused by US aggression will not bring in another pro-American strongman. Most likely it'll strengthen the Islamic Extremist-Pakistani Military Intelligence nexus and turn the whole country anti-US, instead of mostly anti-US.

              So why do it? Bush wants to get OBL before the November election and they know he's in Waziristan among people with strong ideological, religious and personal ties.
              I suppose if they have him, then they'll present him shortly before the elections to "prove" the success of the questionable operations.

              The whole thing reminds me of the mistake that is repeated over and over again - putting the blame on one person! Like with Hitler -- doing away with him meant few others were to blame and getting on with business. Removing Obama would solve nothing, the humiliations that so disenchanted many millions of Muslims is not being addressed and that's the core problem. Serious and credible attempts by "The West" (and not only the US) to take the Arabs and the Muslim world as respected and real partners are necesseary and overdue. Osama's capture is meaningless, except (and understandably so) for the families of the 9/11 victims.
              L'Etranger
              Veteran Moorcockista
              Last edited by L'Etranger; 09-20-2008, 07:36 AM.
              Google ergo sum

              Comment

              • Dave Hardy
                Dave Hardy
                Proud to be a Citizen of Tanelorn
                Dave Hardy
                Proud to be a Citizen of Tanelorn
                • Dec 2007
                • 326

                #8
                Originally posted by L'Etranger View Post
                The whole thing reminds me of the mistake that is repeated over and over again - putting the blame on one person! Like with Hitler -- doing away with him meant few others were to blame and getting on with business. Removing Obama would solve nothing, the humiliations that so disenchanted many millions of Muslims is not being addressed and that's the core problem. Serious and credible attempts by "The West" (and not only the US) to take the Arabs and the Muslim world as respected and real partners are necesseary and overdue. Osama's capture is meaningless, except (and understandably so) for the families of the 9/11 victims.
                What you say pretty much sums up post-9/11 US thinking. The one completely unacceptable thing to say in public discourse here is that the 9/11 hijackers had some coherent political objective. To suggest they didn't do it out of spite at our wealth or goodness is to get yourself branded as a grade-A nutcase.

                Case in point: Obama's pastor Rev. Wright was fountain of wackiness. He said all kinds of nutty stuff. No problem really. What was it he said that was too much? The straw on the camels back was thus:

                "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," -Wright

                OK, it ain't the most in depth analysis of Islamic Extremism. I doubt anyone in Al Qaeda is fighting for black South Africans per se (they've got their own axes to grind), but it was he very notion that there was some coherent, understandable, motive behind 9/11 that did in Wright. If Al Qaeda's fighters have a purpose based on reaction to US policy, then the public would need to examine that policy. Decide if it is beneficial to the American public. Debate it. Well, THAT's completely unacceptable.

                Other cases in point, take a look at what they did to Scott Ritter for pointing out Iraq had no WMDs. Take a look at what they did to Mike Schuer for daring to publicly explain ObL and Al Qaeda.

                If OBL dropped dead, it wouldn't change a thing. We'd still be living in a delusion.
                Dave Hardy
                http://fireandsword.blogspot.com/

                My books: Crazy Greta, Tales of Phalerus the Achaean, and Palmetto Empire.

                sigpic

                Comment

                • thingfish
                  thingfish
                  sairfecht
                  thingfish
                  sairfecht
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 15756

                  #9
                  Well put.
                  Couldnt agree more
                  "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

                  Hunter S Thompson

                  Comment

                  • Morgan Kane
                    Morgan Kane
                    Lost in the multiverse
                    Morgan Kane
                    Lost in the multiverse
                    • Jun 2006
                    • 1428

                    #10
                    As i said otherwhere, War is continuation of politics by other means.

                    Islamists make politics ans terrortism is their weapon. USA do war and not politics .... They will lose as Freance lost in Algeria and USA in Vietnam ....

                    Comment

                    • hellbender
                      hellbender
                      Wizardry's my trade
                      hellbender
                      Wizardry's my trade
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 66

                      #11
                      Regardless of what impact he would have dead, I would still like to see it. As one of the rabble American's who pay taxes so that our flealess leader can help out some other country instead of truly helping out the poor here (and I am not talking about the pathetic welfare system that is horribly abused) I am tired of seeing people who hate America smugly grinning and speaking hate filled trash.

                      If we are really going to have a war against terror we should do it and drop all of the politically correct crap and be real. Kill them and take their stuff, that has been an effective way to wage war up until people decided to do it in a civil manner.
                      There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self.

                      --Aldous Huxley

                      Comment

                      • Groakes
                        Groakes
                        badseed
                        Groakes
                        badseed
                        • Jan 2005
                        • 2512

                        #12
                        Well, a year ago he was in Sydney for APEC

                        Great analysis though, Dave.
                        Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker.
                        Bakunin

                        Comment

                        • Dave Hardy
                          Dave Hardy
                          Proud to be a Citizen of Tanelorn
                          Dave Hardy
                          Proud to be a Citizen of Tanelorn
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 326

                          #13
                          Originally posted by hellbender View Post
                          Regardless of what impact he would have dead, I would still like to see it. As one of the rabble American's who pay taxes so that our flealess leader can help out some other country instead of truly helping out the poor here (and I am not talking about the pathetic welfare system that is horribly abused) I am tired of seeing people who hate America smugly grinning and speaking hate filled trash.
                          Oh, make no mistake. I'll buy a steak dinner and an Andy Jackson cigar for the guy that cashes ObL's chips. I just don't see it making big difference. This kind of "asymmetrical warfare" doesn't work that way.

                          I don't think understanding a foe's motivation is the same as giving him a pass. Schuer has given the best and most consice explanations of Al Qaeda's aims and motives, yet he was the laed CIA agent tasked with capturing a killing ObL.

                          Moreover, in a democratic system, a fully informed public is vital. It is up to us to understand what our government does and how it impacts us and the world. Otherwise, what's the point of voting for a government? Instead we talk about "did Hillary get sniped in Bosnia" and moose hunting.

                          I don't want to sound like I'm mad at you Hellbender, I just get grumpy when I see our republic going to the dogs.
                          Dave Hardy
                          http://fireandsword.blogspot.com/

                          My books: Crazy Greta, Tales of Phalerus the Achaean, and Palmetto Empire.

                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • Rothgo
                            Rothgo
                            Champion of the Unbalanced
                            Rothgo
                            Champion of the Unbalanced
                            • Aug 2006
                            • 6680

                            #14
                            Dead and in heaven with his rightfully due 40 maiden virgins. An eternity with 40 virgins eh? Well, to keep 'em that way suggests more than just a little frustration... Be careful what you wish for!

                            Comment

                            • L'Etranger
                              L'Etranger
                              Veteran Moorcockista
                              L'Etranger
                              Veteran Moorcockista
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 4772

                              #15
                              Originally posted by hellbender View Post
                              Regardless of what impact he would have dead, I would still like to see it. As one of the rabble American's who pay taxes so that our flealess leader can help out some other country instead of truly helping out the poor here (and I am not talking about the pathetic welfare system that is horribly abused) I am tired of seeing people who hate America smugly grinning and speaking hate filled trash.

                              If we are really going to have a war against terror we should do it and drop all of the politically correct crap and be real. Kill them and take their stuff, that has been an effective way to wage war up until people decided to do it in a civil manner.
                              I am not snugly grinning and hating America. Many who criticize the US government (which isn't America!) do so because they are America's friends.
                              And I shall not not shut up in face of your government's deplorable politics and double standards. Osama is the creation of the CIA who built up these guys, trained and equipped them when they were useful against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
                              All this mumbo-jumbo about "War on Terror". What if the terror we are getting is the backlash of what these people perceive as terror against them? One has to try to change perspective once in a while. And what is declared to be a "War on Terror" presents itself to those on the other side as a war of terror in which time and again innocent villagers who are holding wedding ceremonies are blown to pieces, in which troops ("the Liberators") wipe out whole families in Bagdhad, in which a US government closes both eyes on the Israelis not budging an inch to fullfill already signed accords, in which prisoners are humiliated in a way that just completely disavows the great Western Ideals of Human Rights, Dignity of Man blabla etc. So what if those guys (that we feel menanced by) just think they're hitting back?
                              Sure, we want Osama bin Laden punished.
                              But did anybody punish the US Navy Captain who ordered an Iranian Civil passenger Airplane shot down in July 1988? We know it was a different situation, a terrible mistake even. But explain that to the Iranians. And explain also why the ship's commander and entire crew were awarded medals soon afterwards?
                              I'm not sure if the German submarine commander who sank the Lusitania was awarded a medal for this, but wouldn't that have felt very, very much like an additional display of giving a f*** for people's feelings?
                              No, I am convinced that millions of Muslims have for very long felt that they are being scr...d again and again by us (and our so-called Leader of the Free), and that El Qaida and other terrorist groups were spawned by the very lack of respect that was displayed by Western power politics. Why even the Soviets were more subtle in Middle East approach? Until they made the Afghanistan mistake and couldn't withdraw anymore.

                              What impression do you think did the America refusal to let American soldiers be answerable to the International Criminal Court cause some years ago? I do expect that Osama and Co equally refute the Court to judge them, any parallels will be coincidental, I guess.

                              If we are really going to have a war against terror we should do it and drop all of the politically correct crap and be real. Kill them and take their stuff, that has been an effective way to wage war up until people decided to do it in a civil manner.
                              That's the right spirit , politicians and arms industry will love it, you're signing the cheque for 10 more years or so.
                              L'Etranger
                              Veteran Moorcockista
                              Last edited by L'Etranger; 09-21-2008, 04:28 AM.
                              Google ergo sum

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