What do you think of Piers Morgan resigning from the Mirror?

[Darren]

Where, supposing that your subtle hints have worked (damn you!) and that we don't have a credit card do we get an audio book of Elric of Melnibone from? I tried to look for some secondhand Elric comics or graphic novels in London, am I in the wrong place? Told there was somewhere in Notting Hill called the Book Exchange.

Watched Van Helsing and saw a behind the scenes trailer that will be on the DVD of that when it comes out. Universal undertook the film having already come up with the merchandising and spinoffs. Will there be little Elric dolls? An Elric Theme Park? CDROMs? in the wake of it to soak up as much chaos cash that would make Theleb K'aarna blush (he's the theocrat of Pan Tang, right?)?

Alan Cameron seems to be a very talented set designer who loves fantasy and as I was already a fan of Sommers work after seeing The Mummy and Mummy Returns Van Helsing was a blast. It would be great to see the Movie infused with either of those talents.

So, where can we get a copy of the audio book while the screenplay's being written?

PS

though this isn't meant to be on this thread (more current affairs, really), it's easier, what do you think of Piers Morgan resigning from the Mirror?

[Michael Moorcock]

I understood Morgan had been fired. Did he resign ? I think it's inevitable that he should go. We all knew he'd have to if the pictures turned out to be fakes. They probably served a purpose to alert the British public to the possibility of our soldiers torturing prisoners, which might have been why they were faked, but I can't see that it was the best way to do it. I note the Daily Mirror are giving the money earned on the pictures to army charities and the Red Cross. Not sure it will undo the damage, though I doubt if any MORE damage was done than that done by the reality.
I think AudioRealms have now posted the Elric of Melnibone audiobook on Amazon. If they haven't, they will soon! It's been picking up some good reviews.

[DeeCrowSeer]

The intial news reports said Morgan had "quit", but the general consensus now seems to be that he was fired after pressure from... well, everyone really. Obviously he should have been fired, if only from the point of view that he printed fake photos as Fact, and therefore failed to do his job as an Editor... the moral debate, over whether the pictures have "endangered" British soldiers is slightly harder for me to get my head around personally. It's easy to prove that the photos were false, but the allegations (regarding possible abuse) might still be true... unfortunately there will be Top Secret investigations into the allegations, and the results probably won't be released until it's too late for anything to be done, or The Mirror's reputation (such as it is) to be saved.

D...

[Michael Moorcock]

Yep. I think invading Iraq was the big mistake. Everything else -- growing hatred of Christendom, if you like -- has followed from there.
We had chances to improve the situation through diplomacy and subtle intelligence. We blew it. Now we're in the crap for the next few hundred years, assuming we have a few hundred years to go...

[zakt]

Not wishing to defend Blair & co too much, but I think the photos must have done some damage in excess of the actual circumstances they purport to depict:

1) they accelerated the spread of news / rumour of the British brutalisation of prisoners;
2) they illustrated that brutalisation ("pictures speak louder than words") and therefore probably inflamed popular opinion in Iraq and the rest of the Arab world (as they did in the UK, as rumours of the brutality had been around for a while)
3) they gave the religious maniacs on the Islamic Right, as well as those interested in the maintenance of dignity and human rights, something to hang the allegations on. Amnesty, etc. will dig deeper, the photos having been discredited, and attempt to find the truth. The Islamic Right will continue to use those photos for months and years to come, no matter what action the British government or army may take to bring their staff to book.

I would have more sympathy with Morgan if I believed that he had anything more than newspaper sales in mind when he accepted these photos at face value. He is not a political journalist; his background was in gossip and "media" news, and that is how he has treated this issue. The falsification of these images, and their subsequent publication will, in many respects, lessen the impact of the allegations in the longer term. Added to which, they have to some extent lessend the impact of the Abu Ghraib photos, in the UK at least.

Interesting now, though, that Abu Ghraib seems to be refocussing attention on Camp X-Ray. Mere miles off the Florida coast, but it has been almost totally ignored by the media up to now.

[Michael Moorcock]

I, too, didn't have much time for Morgan, though I approved of the paper's anti-war policy. That was also what no doubt motivated him to prefer to believe the photos genuine.

[zakt]

Your faith in reptile nature is better than mine, Mike If Morgan had worked for the Sun, he might well have checked them out a bit more seriously. :?:

[Michael Moorcock]

Fair point. Can't say more because of those blood Maori hackers.
They'd better not try sticking their sodding tongues out at me next time. I'll tell you.

[zakt]

Kia-ora 8O

[Michael Moorcock]

I thought that was kiwi for orange juice...

[DeeCrowSeer]

You can't get orange juice from a kiwi... you need an orange for that!

[Michael Moorcock]

The kiwi I had as a kid was orange. Are you telling me something I don't want to know ? :(

[DeeCrowSeer]

I know this is totally off the subject, but I don't want to start a whole new thread dedicated to Mr Blair... but the other day he was pelted with condoms filled with flour by two men standing in a private gallery of the House of Commons, and now obviously everyone is running around asking "What if it had been more serious?" I don't wish any physical harm on the Prime Minister, but I'm curious to know why it wasn't more serious. If it's that easy to get a clear shot at our country's leader (no book depository needed, no speeding motorcade), why haven't any terrorists actually tried anything similar yet? Why is it only harmless divorced men who are angry enough to take such risks? It reminded me of the unfunny comedian who manged to gatecrash a Prince's birthday party by simply walking in and pretending he belonged there. Again, he could have had a gun... but he didn't. Where are all of these crazy, dirty bomb-carrying, anthrax-dispersing terrorists we're supposed to be so afraid of?

Obviously I'm not denying that people have been killed, and I certainly don't want to see any more more lives lost, it just seems strange to me. Perhaps I should just shut up and be grateful that I haven't been blown to bits.

D...

PS. I've remembered why I thought there was a connection between the Morgan thing and this story! Both seem to distract attention away from the actual issues. I'm not sure I'm cynical enough to believe that they are an intentional distraction, but still...

[zakt]

Could be down to even suicidial maniacs (apologies to any suicidal maniacs out there) having limits on how much of a risk they want to take in achieving their targets. The "harmless divorced men" only took the risk of being searched and found to have powder-filled condoms on them. They might just have been taken for Tory MPs out for a night of fun. Certainly will probably get off with a short sentence or a middling fine. A suicide bomber or similar would probably assume better security (and will find better security in future, no doubt), and assess the risk of being stopped way short of target as being too great.

Thinking back to when the IRA nearly achieved the real thing with Thatcher at Brighton, I couldn't help feeling slightly disappointed. I would feel different about Blair. Maybe this shows the distance he still has to go before he becomes a complete fascist. :?:

[Michael Moorcock]

You do have to go through security detection equipment in the HoP. I always had to when I was attending meetings there. Could be, however, that flour doesn't show up as a dangerous substance. Could be that the powder throwers have actually done MPs a favour and that the security people will be a bit more vigilant in future.