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Call for an End of Executions

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  • Call for an End of Executions

    The United Nations General Assembly endorsed the call for a worldwide suspension of executions. Please show your indignation against any apologist of the Death Penalty, and don't forget that Japan too, larghely unnoticed by the world public, is still executing people.
    We should have left this way behind us by now.
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-u...tions-20071218

    CHINA USA
    IRAN BALI
    WORLD


    And - Bravo New Jersey!
    Google ergo sum


  • #2
    USA and Japan...they must end executions first!I mean,one would a expect executions in 3rld world countries but these two...

    Personally I think some crimes deserve death penalty but anything can go wrong.So it's better for 10 criminals that deserved to die to live another day,than kill an innocent.Here in Greece,in a few cases of really terrible crimes,the criminals were found dead in prison.Either commited suicide or the others killed them.
    What's worse after all?Have a quick death or rot in prison?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Heiron View Post
      USA and Japan...they must end executions first!I mean,one would a expect executions in 3rld world countries but these two...
      Not to be a stickler, but technically speaking the "3rd world" no longer exists, it was a term to distinguish between the 1st world (westernized democracy), the 2nd world (the USSR / China and their respective satellite states) and the 3rd world which was essentially everyone else who didn't fit into these categories.

      Don't mean to lecture, but if we want to be politically correct we would call it the "Developing World"

      Of course then again I am by no means politically correct all the time, so who cares hehe.

      "All Chaos needs is one willing to serve it. If the will exists, the power is given." -
      Jhary-a-Conel, Companion to Champions.

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      • #4
        Then we are the "no-longer-developing world", I presume?

        I always wondered who the 2nd World was , so thanks for the enlightenment.
        Last edited by L'Etranger; 01-30-2008, 05:05 AM.
        Google ergo sum

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        • #5
          I didn't know the 2nd world either.I thought Greece was a part of it actually but hey we were in the 1st world(or the 3rd?Hmmm...)Anyway,you understood what I meant.
          Replying to myself,I'd like to add that perhaps prison is not so bad for a terrible prisoner.I mean most of the prisons are not that bad after all.Sports,books,television,visitors...they even let you go out for some days!!!Hey,military service in the Navy was worse than prison coming to thing of it...

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          • #6
            I would rather see someone be placed in prison for the rest of his life than be killed. We've found too many people innocent of crimes that they were put into prison for. How will society pay for the killing of an innocent in this way? Far better to let them rot in prison or better yet, put them to work doing slave labor.
            I loved in the Republican debates when the question came up about "what would Jesus do?" about the death penalty. They all went around the question because they believe in it. Jesus would be against it! "He who has no sin cast the first stone." He was even given the death penalty and forgave his killers. These God fearing Christians should be ashamed. I find it funny(strange) how people twist the words of holy men to accomplish their own ends.
            I have studied many religions and most seem to say don't kill each other and love one another. It seems unfortunate that man seems to always needs another avatar to come to Earth to remind us of these things. It's unfortunate how quick we forget.
            "The world is such-and-such or so-and-so only because we tell ourselves that that is the way it is. If we stop telling ourselves that the world is so-and-so, the world will stop being so-and-so." - don Juan

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            • #7
              Agree 100% about the lowbrows using religion to justify their unevolved state.
              I would have loved to have seen their faces when the"what would jesus do"question came up.The trouble i find with these folks is that they never have anything to back up their knee-jerk extremism so its always interesting to see their own dogma being thrown back at them
              Agree also with the killing criminals point.
              If we do that then i feel we forfeit our right to sit in judgement of them as we would be morally equal and not in any way morally superior!
              "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

              Hunter S Thompson

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              • #8
                Originally posted by thingfish View Post
                If we do that then i feel we forfeit our right to sit in judgement of them as we would be morally equal and not in any way morally superior!
                But the criminal justice system here is based upon our right to be tried by our peers (although Nu-Lab are trying to chip that away), not our superiors.

                There was an interesting programme on the other week featuring Michael Portillo looking into different means of execution in order to find the most humane. One of the highlights was subjecting a pig's carcass to the same voltage, etc. as an electric chair: the burns were horrific. Anyway, Portillo finally come across a humane method: hypoxia (oxygen starvation) where you basically become euphoric before you die. He was talking to some US pro-execution activist about this and the guy's response was "But we want them to suffer!". Prior to that, Portillo had asked the inventor of the lethal injection what his reaction was to all the evidence that there was nothing humane about it and the guy's response was "so what if they suffer: they deserve it!"

                Incidentally this cleared up something that has long puzzled me: how come vets can put down animals without any problem, but there is all this controversy over lethal injections? It turns out that it's not only the mixture of drugs that is an issue, but the fact that doctors won't carry out the procedure due to the Hippocratic oath so they use 'medical technicians' some of whom can't hit veins very well (I can't see why they can't train them up to do this: junkies don't seem to have problem).

                Anyway, I digress. My point is that whilst I am perfectly comfortable with the concept of revenge on a personal level, the notion that the State should extract revenge by deliberately inflicting suffering upon those it sees fit to execute is just so abhorrent, that it had never crossed my mind that there were advocates of the death penalty who would have stood by this view in the nineteenth century, yet alone nowadays.

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                • #9
                  Yeah i take your point John but the key word i used is "morally".You cant turn around to somebody and say that they have committed the most evil deed and then turn round and say we are going to do the exact same thing back to them.
                  Thats playground justice and i would like to think that one day they could evolve out of that like europe eventually did!
                  I also saw the documentary by that "reformed" thatcherite Portillo and thought he did a brilliant job on it.The scene you refer to when he confronted the pro-death penalty redneck with his Hypoxia method also staggered me,i just thought he was like a kid who says "its my ball and your not getting a game"
                  "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

                  Hunter S Thompson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by thingfish View Post
                    Yeah i take your point John but the key word i used is "morally".You cant turn around to somebody and say that they have committed the most evil deed and then turn round and say we are going to do the exact same thing back to them.
                    Thats playground justice and i would like to think that one day they could evolve out of that like europe eventually did!
                    I appreciate that the death penalty is an extreme example, but what about other forms of punishment for criminal acts? If somebody falsely imprisons somebody, we don't have a problem with imprisoning them. Likewise what is fining somebody for theft but theft by the State?

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                    • #11
                      Yep,couldnt agree more John.
                      The big question now is what do we devise to put in place of these tried and failed methods.
                      Hmm will have to chew on that one for a bit.
                      "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

                      Hunter S Thompson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by johneffay View Post
                        I appreciate that the death penalty is an extreme example, but what about other forms of punishment for criminal acts? If somebody falsely imprisons somebody, we don't have a problem with imprisoning them. Likewise what is fining somebody for theft but theft by the State?
                        I have a problem with false imprisionment! We have too many prosecuters who just want to get a guilty verdict so that they climb up the ladder. I've heard about too many cases were a prosecuter new about evidence that proved the accused was innocent and didn't let it be known. This isn't justice.
                        I find that I have a big problem with how the media treats the accused in general. I often hear people around me say that a someone is guilty when they don't know all the facts and the accused hasn't even been to trial.
                        The thing I hate about crimes by people in government is that they tend to get away with it even when they are found guilty. They should get a harsher punishment because they betrayed our trust.
                        "The world is such-and-such or so-and-so only because we tell ourselves that that is the way it is. If we stop telling ourselves that the world is so-and-so, the world will stop being so-and-so." - don Juan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not to put too fine a point on things, folks, but the jury system is in trouble. Thompson lamented it's fading in Britain a long time ago. Here, it is under siege from the laws themselves. Expansion of unit of prosecution and other multiple criminalizations of the same act or episode is the problem. A person might well go to trial on principle when faced with 5 years, but what about thirty? Increasingly, with crimes defined very broadly, sentencing enhancements, and multiple units of prosecution, those are the sort of choices people are faced with.
                          Kevin McCabe
                          The future is there, looking back at us. Trying to make sense of the fiction we will have become. William Gibson

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                          • #14
                            I think maybe one idea would be to make juries anonymous to everyone involved in the trial.
                            They could watch on cctv.
                            Dont know how you would pick them though
                            Sorry,just thinking out loud!
                            "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

                            Hunter S Thompson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh, juries are fair enough. And, we don't have the same sort of intimidation problems over here that one sees in, say, Irish Ra trials. It's the laws that are the problem. Prosecutors can charge multiple crimes for the same act. The huge potential sentences often scare accused persons out of trials, even when they have a good defense. Too much risk.
                              Kevin McCabe
                              The future is there, looking back at us. Trying to make sense of the fiction we will have become. William Gibson

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