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Ethnocentrism

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  • Ethnocentrism

    The Multiculturalists' fixation on Eurocentrism, is itself a form of Eurocentrism: it never occurs to them that Sinocentrism may be, in its own way, atleast as dangerous. Along the same note, one of the problems of multiculturalism is this: it overlooks the fact that nonWestern nations are actually even more authoritarian and sexist than Western ones.

  • #2
    Re: Ethnocentrism

    Originally posted by Twin Ruler
    The Multiculturalists' fixation on Eurocentrism, is itself a form of Eurocentrism: it never occurs to them that Sinocentrism may be, in its own way, atleast as dangerous. Along the same note, one of the problems of multiculturalism is this: it overlooks the fact that nonWestern nations are actually even more authoritarian and sexist than Western ones.

    Maybe you should do a comic about your passionately felt political beliefs. :P

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ethnocentrism

      Originally posted by Twin Ruler
      The Multiculturalists' fixation on Eurocentrism, is itself a form of Eurocentrism: it never occurs to them that Sinocentrism may be, in its own way, atleast as dangerous. Along the same note, one of the problems of multiculturalism is this: it overlooks the fact that nonWestern nations are actually even more authoritarian and sexist than Western ones.
      I think you're point is well taken and a common misunderstanding even among people who trumpet the multicultural banner. Multiculturalism is not a centristic fixation, quite simply, not proclaiming superiority or centrism of any kind, but an affirmation of the fact that the world is too rich, complex, ugly, and beautiful to view through a mythical monolith called Eurocentrism. It asks people to be open-minded and to read, view, and talk to people who grew up in different walks of life. If anything, multiculturalism is the mortal enemy of any kind of -centrism, which has strong correlates for authoritarianism, sexism, and oppression.

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      • #4
        Personally, I find Multiculturalism itself to be rigidly authoritarian; it seems to have taken over from pre-war fascism and propounds a similar agenda.

        Similarities are its corporatism; its use of media propaganda; sport as propaganda; attempt to outlaw all politically-incorrect expressions; use of war as a means of diplomacy; cult of violence; moral hypocrisy, etc., etc,.,

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Moody
          Personally, I find Multiculturalism itself to be rigidly authoritarian; it seems to have taken over from pre-war fascism and propounds a similar agenda.

          Similarities are its corporatism; its use of media propaganda; sport as propaganda; attempt to outlaw all politically-incorrect expressions; use of war as a means of diplomacy; cult of violence; moral hypocrisy, etc., etc,.,
          You may be talking about certain multiculturalists, but I think you're creating too much of a sweeping generalization about multiculturalism as a philosophy or even a movement.

          I know many people who have become PC police in the name of multiculturalism, but I'm certainly not ready to dismiss its ideals because of these people.

          Moreover, to typify multiculturalists as proponents of wars of diplomacy seems especially harsh and misplaced.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Doc
            I know many people who have become PC police in the name of multiculturalism, but I'm certainly not ready to dismiss its ideals because of these people.
            Moreover, to typify multiculturalists as proponents of wars of diplomacy seems especially harsh and misplaced.
            I can only speak as I find.
            Bush justifies American militarism on a philosophical/theological basis; the need to bring 'freedom' and 'tolerance' to the world; this is very much the agenda of multiculturalism.

            I would say that multiculturaism IN PRAXIS must entail political-correctness; how else can you get all those monoculturalists to give up their ways and adopt the New Gospel of Multiculturalism?

            As far as I know ALL Western Nations which have adopted multiculturalism have promulgated new laws to outlaw political opposition to multiculturalism.

            If there is a benign Multiculturalism [and there is always a benign version of EVERYTHING], then I would like to look into its heart. I'm sure I'd find the same neo-fascist blood pumping through its veins!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Moody
              /shortened/
              As far as I know ALL Western Nations which have adopted multiculturalism have promulgated new laws to outlaw political opposition to multiculturalism.

              If there is a benign Multiculturalism [and there is always a benign version of EVERYTHING], then I would like to look into its heart. I'm sure I'd find the same neo-fascist blood pumping through its veins!
              What then is ideal in your opinion, Moody? What are you desperately trying to prove?
              L'Etranger
              Google ergo sum

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LEtranger
                What then is ideal in your opinion, Moody? What are you desperately trying to prove?
                1
                Oh dear, I hope I don't sound as if I am desperately trying to 'prove' anything.
                Or else, perhaps I am if we use the word 'prove' in its old sense of trying to 'test' something.
                The cliche 'an exception PROVES the rule' uses 'prove' in this old sense.

                If the 'rule' survives such 'proving', then it is a rule worth keeping.

                My argument would be that Multiculturalism [the subject of this thread judging by the first post] cannot survive any stringent 'tests'. It NEEDS to have the kind of subservient yea-saying that political correctness tries to develop.

                Let those who believe in Multiculturalism defend themselves against criticism - not pass laws to outlaw criticism.

                2
                Generally, I would say that I favour Natural modes over Artificial ones.

                Multiculturalism is artificial because it needs to be bolstered by laws which run counter to Nature.

                I destest the arid mechanoid consumerism whcih accompanies multiculturalism.
                I destest the way that the pursuit of 'ethnic minorities' forgets that there are also 'ethnic majorities'.

                So I am opposed to the deculturalisation of ANY peoples, and multiculturalism is a force of deculturalisation.

                I would like to see a re-culturalisation and a return to the kind of Natural Order that we see in the mythic world.
                World's where art and philosophy are valued far higher than money, AND WHERE A FREE-MAN IS HE WHO CAN CARRY A BLADED WEAPON AND SPEAK HIS MIND.

                His tongue is his sword and his sword his tongue.

                Where life is full of flavour and sap.

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                • #9
                  Hmmm, what would be the role of women in this? And are people actually living this "naturalism" or "survivalism" (?) anywhere (again) currently? I'm sure it would appeal to many, wouldn't it?
                  Google ergo sum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LEtranger
                    what would be the role of women in this? And are people actually living this "naturalism" or "survivalism" (?) anywhere (again) currently? I'm sure it would appeal to many, wouldn't it?
                    What is the appeal of Multiculturalism?
                    Is the kind of social-engineering contingent with Multiculturalism, appealing?
                    I think not, although even if it were, the opinion of the "many" would necessarily be a mass opinion, an opinion without nuance.

                    Multiculturalism is a mass movement without appeal; it is popularism which is unpopular.

                    You have brought in "survivalism" here - I haven't used the term - please explain [unless you merely mean that life is about survival in essence].

                    'Nature' is not a benign beastess; she is often terrifying, and she is always unequal and unfair. But I prefer this mistress Nature to the Whore Artifice who is the consort of all Multiculturalists.

                    You cannot ESCAPE Nature - you try to cast her out and she returns three-fold.
                    Some of us celebrate this guest, and give her good mead - others, the social engineers try and snub her, much to their own eventual regret.

                    So I regard feminism as a crock; a disaster for all cultures which leads inevitably to decadence, decline and morbid self-destruction.

                    We of the purple glove
                    We of the starling flight & velvet hour
                    We of arabic pleasures' breed
                    We of sundome & the night
                    [JDM American Prayer]


                    The Goddess Kali

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The word survivalism occurred to me, because your earlier statement
                      "I would like to see a re-culturalisation and a return to the kind of Natural Order that we see in the mythic world.... " sounds much like a return to an order in which the fittest survive.
                      I personally believe that everybody has some gifts and talents, but noone has all talents. Few could probably survive all by themselves, so that from a certain level of civilisation upwards we have thrown in all our collective talents to share. And the emphasis on so-called "Naturalism" does remind of a kind of romanticism in which the "noble savage" survives ...
                      Do I have the freedom of interpreting your remark on feminism as an answer to my question about what a woman's role would be in this "Weltanschauung"? And do you mean then she should return to "traditional" female roles lest culture falls prey to decadence? Is the concept of equality of women and men already decadent?
                      Google ergo sum

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LEtranger
                        The emphasis on so-called "Naturalism" does remind of a kind of romanticism in which the "noble savage" survives ...
                        Do do you mean then [that woman] should return to "traditional" female roles lest culture falls prey to decadence? Is the concept of equality of women and men already decadent?
                        Yes, I believe that concepts of equality [in the sense of an equalising egalitarianism] are a SYMPTOM of decadence.
                        They show that everything is seeking the lowest common denominator.

                        I do however think that there are variations in the traditions.
                        Speaking generally, the 'East' has always viewed woman as a possession of man; this is less true in the traditions of the 'West', albeit only less true by degree.
                        The English word 'wo-man' implies that the female belongs to the man.

                        I believe that the tendency of women to pursue careers, instead of having children and nurturing them, has been detrimental to the social fabric of the West. It has been to the advantage only of business, which finds it can pay women less, and push them around more.

                        But again, as I said, all this is a symptom of weakness in MEN in the first place.
                        All great culture is VIRILE.

                        Having said all that, I am interested in the theories that Old Europe had a goddess worshipping culture and such. Even if this were so, it was undoubtedly conquered by the masculine invaders from the East around 4,000 years ago.

                        Perhaps we are seeing a reversion to this pre-historic goddess-culture via our decadence.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's kinda late, and it's been a good few years since I used my brain constructively, but I thought I'd throw my tuppence in here for what it's worth.

                          First, I'm going to go with a definition of "Multiculturalism" from the following perspective:

                          "Historically, "multiculturalism" came into wide public use during the early 1980s in the context of public school curriculum reform. Specifically, the argument was made that the content of classes in history, literature, social studies, and other areas reflected what came to be called a "Eurocentric" bias. Few if any women or people of color, or people from outside the Western European tradition, appeared prominently in the curriculums of schools in the United States."

                          Source: http://www.uwm.edu/~gjay/Multicult/M...lturalism.html

                          If that's the stuff we're talking about, then I have to say that I'm in favour of it. Obviously as an insecure White European, I have no wish to sit in a room being attacked for the actions of my ancestors... but equally, as a curious and social animal, I have a strong desire to learn about other cultures and people. Not because I wish to appear "trendy" or "Politically Correct", but just because I'm just naturally curious about how we all got to where we are now and how we might proceed from this point forward. The more perspectives we get on our past and present, the more informed choices we'll be able to make for our future... I know this is overly idealistic of me on a global/political level, but on a personal level I find that a wide range of sources helps keep the evolution ticking over.

                          I'll be honest, I can't entirely follow a lot of what Moody is saying, so forgive me if I'm being overly-simplistic. Obviously we are mere motes of sand on the great tide of nature. At any moment we, as individuals or as a civilisation, could be snuffed out by forces unseen and unpredictable. The human mind is incapable of fully appreciating or expressing the true beauty of Nature. Fair enough, but I hesitate from going too far down the road of declaring what is "natural" and what is "unnatural" or decadent. Spectacles are "unnatural", but I'd like to keep mine with me if that's okay with you guys. Computers are "decadent" to some people, but here we all are...

                          As for feminism, I don't know enough about the way humans evolved to say for a fact which roles men and women should take to most comfortably conform to their "nartural" roles. Many creatures raise their young in equal partnership, and mate for life. I'm always wary of men who argue in favour of "nature", as I suspect it's often just an excuse to sleep around and treat women like baby factories.

                          I know this is just my personal judgement, but if women weren't "allowed" to work then I would never have heard the song "Pretend We're Dead" and that would make me a very sad Dee indeed. If you're "testing" the notion of world without any female contributions to art and culture, then I have absolutely no wish to see your vision come to pass. No offence.

                          Well, that's enough rambling for now.

                          D...
                          "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I suspect those who oppose the type of multiculturalism you are talking about Dee also support various "final solutions".
                            The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

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                            • #15
                              'Nature' is not a benign beastess; she is often terrifying, and she is always unequal and unfair. But I prefer this mistress Nature to the Whore Artifice who is the consort of all Multiculturalists.

                              You cannot ESCAPE Nature - you try to cast her out and she returns three-fold.
                              Some of us celebrate this guest, and give her good mead - others, the social engineers try and snub her, much to their own eventual regret.

                              So I regard feminism as a crock; a disaster for all cultures which leads inevitably to decadence, decline and morbid self-destruction.
                              Are we not all part of the natural world? Do we not at least have the responsibility to maintain some kind of order within our species?

                              Odin did not hang from Yggdrasil for no result. His inner contemplation and open state of mind enabled his character to develop and only those who find the means within themselves will ever change the world.

                              Idealism is the enemy no matter what, the ideals the world cannot suit everyone in every way, one could say that mankind reflects the cruelty of nature herself.

                              As for multiculturalism we are all already a blend of many races; I have no race: I make mankind my race.

                              I don't think how we live could get much more "artificial". I often encounter people who want to go back to times which did not historically even exist.

                              I am a person who thinks it was a bad idea to come down from the trees in the first place, and probably a bad idea to leave the oceans, but history has happened and all those who value and celebrate the earth can do now is attempt to conserve the beauty and variety of nature.

                              Friend, nature gives you good mead. You celebrate like a Viking, did they not help spread "foreign" culture around the world? Christianity for example killing those who would not convert.

                              Do not think that the natural world doesn't have it's own "multiculturalism" wars. Conservationists frequently remove "non-native vegetation" such as the beautiful Himilayan Balsam which is "taking over our parks and supressing native species"

                              Hedgehogs are killed on Scottish Isles to conserve rare birds and Ruddy ducks are shot dead at a massive expense in the UK to prevent them from breeding in Spain and keep a rare species "pure".

                              What are your thoughts on this "Unnatural" intervention? Is it clearing up a mess we ourselves have made? or is it up to nature to adapt to these changes?

                              As a woman I will say that I don't like those who call themselves "feminists" and think men are inferior to them, think that men should shower them with gifts e.t.c., think that they shouldn't have to do anything (including housework and looking after kids) and talk publically about how bad at sex their bloke is.

                              Feminism in the traditional "equality" sense is fine. Men and women are not that far apart.

                              ------------------------------------------
                              The self is the self's only foe

                              Bhagavad Gita

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