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My democracy is better than yours...

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  • My democracy is better than yours...

    The Economist has investigated into which countries are the most democratic. See article:

    http://www.economist.com/theworldin/...8166790&d=2007

    The full list of investigated countries can be found here.
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    http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/D...LE_2007_v3.pdf

    For a description of the methodology see http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/D...EX_2007_v3.pdf

    Any comments? I was surprised to find my present dwelling at the very top of the list. How can the rest of the world be faring?
    You can't spell "politically correct" without "correct".

  • #2
    Originally posted by Rymdolov
    The Economist has investigated into which countries are the most democratic. See article:

    http://www.economist.com/theworldin/...8166790&d=2007

    The full list of investigated countries can be found here.
    |
    |
    V

    http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/D...LE_2007_v3.pdf

    For a description of the methodology see http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/D...EX_2007_v3.pdf

    Any comments? I was surprised to find my present dwelling at the very top of the list. How can the rest of the world be faring?
    Sweden is at first place now? I thought we were at fourth place? Maybe that was economic freedom. Weird isn't it? When liberals during the voter turned out for the Right-Wing alliance yelled "The many years of socialist oppression are over!"... Misinformed indeed..

    "Nevertheless, it would be wrong to be too pessimistic. Democracy as a value retains strong universal appeal. Creating democracy by external intervention has not gone smoothly. But trends such as globalisation, increasing education and expanding middle classes favour its organic development. These underlying forces suggest that any retreat from democracy will be temporary."

    What the article doesn't say anything about is the polarization thats going on as the middleclass shrinking in size. Or have i been misinformed about that as well.

    I think we are still in a postmodern quagmire of stark relativism and atomistic individualism. Being rather than becoming. Afraid to also "see things clearly, and to be seen clearly". Just saw Sofia Coppolas Marie Antoinette... *Puuuke!*.. Leaving the revolution outside..

    I qoute some of what I gather Gramsci was hinting at:
    "Democracy is Socialism.. And nothing else."
    Or was that Anders Ehrnmark?

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    • #3
      mob rule

      Never quite sure why it is taken as a given that democracy is the best form of government. Perhaps it is a luxury afforded by a country with a higher standard of living, a pleasant illusion that keeps an already acquiescent public passive.

      I'd prefer a system like they had in 10th century Iceland.
      http://final-frame-final.blogspot.com/

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      • #4
        Democracy is the worst system, all others, excepted ! ( Churchill ? )

        Iceland system was good for a limited communauty ..... not for a big nation functionning according to the capitalism dictats ....

        Anarchy is better ....

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        • #5
          Utopia is allways better. I'm ready to believe that people believed democracy was the best one until it became real.
          Free the West Memphis Three

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          • #6
            Oh,I have said a few things about democracy in another topic somewhere aorund here.
            It is the most right and just but not the best.A crowd of people is not smarter than the average individual in it.The crowd is more stupid actually.
            Besides,even for small communitites of ancient times-the Greek cities where the whole thing was born-it didn't seem the best.I mean Athens had to occupy and enforce democratic administration in most of the cities.
            The best system is the one in which the country thrives and the people are happy.Where can we buy one of those systems?I don't know.

            By the way,Sweden's #1 reminded me of Tau Zero...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Heiron
              A crowd of people is not smarter than the average individual in it.The crowd is more stupid actually.
              This is why I have always feared ants - they are the antithesis of humans in that they get smarter the more of them there are

              I have always thought that the true measure of democracy is not how a "party", for lack of better descriptor, gains power but how they relenquish power.

              One of the great problems that democracy faces is the overwhelming onslaught of anti-democratic forces, such as the market, and organisations such as the IMF, World Bank etc who have the power to dictate how countries should model their economies and prescribe punishments to those with the temerity to disobey, but whose boards are appointed, how? Not by the popular vote that's for sure....
              Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker.
              Bakunin

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Groakes
                I have always thought that the true measure of democracy is not how a "party", for lack of better descriptor, gains power but how they relenquish power.
                I think Tony Benn put it best:

                "I'll tell you what questions to ask the next time you meet a powerful person: What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And, how can we get rid of you?"



                See also:

                "If democracy is ever to be threatened, it will not be by revolutionary groups burning government offices and occupying the broadcasting and newspaper offices of the world. It will come from disenchantment, cynicism and despair caused by the realization that the New World Order means we are all to be managed and not represented."
                _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wow, a lot of countries yet to bomb flat and occupy to bring them Democracy.
                  Google ergo sum

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                  • #10
                    Yes...it certainly worked wonders in Afghanistan.



                    The Taliban's destruction of the statues of Buddha was a travesty especially considering the fact that they are currently under reconstruction.
                    The Taliban Rules:
                    Until you get to rules 24 and 25, which make it clear that the Taliban's current campaign of destroying schools around Afghanistan and terrorizing teachers will continue as long as schools dare teach something other than the Taliban version of Islam.
                    "It is forbidden to work as a teacher under the current puppet regime, because this strengthens the system of the infidels," says rule 24. And if a teacher refuses a warning to give up his job, reads rule 25, "he must be beaten."
                    "If the teacher still continues to instruct contrary to the principles of Islam, the district commander or a group leader must kill him," it continues.
                    When schools are burned, the Taliban rules say it is important that religious texts be removed from the buildings first.
                    This is one of the saddest entries into their rulebook..
                    Taliban "are not allowed to take young boys with no facial hair onto the battlefield or into their private quarters."

                    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...2.6/index.html
                    This means that the value of a boys life and his virginity are equal to the cost of a disposable razor.
                    Last edited by voilodian ghagnasdiak; 12-07-2006, 08:11 AM.

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                    • #11
                      They arent supposed to shave either.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by voilodian ghagnasdiak
                        Yes...it certainly worked wonders in Afghanistan.



                        The Taliban's destruction of the statues of Buddha was a travesty especially considering the fact that they are currently under reconstruction.

                        This is one of the saddest entries into their rulebook..

                        This means that the value of a boys life and his virginity are equal to the cost of a disposable razor.
                        "Priciples of islam" is a really wide area regarding morality and other 'thangs'. So its all a matter of fundamentalist principles and nothing else.
                        They should have anti-fundamentalist teaching in schools today. So people, of any creed or culture, can identify the rhetoric, and understand the incosistent bullshit it dictates, for what it is. An insecure fart in the windy tubulence that is 'time and space'.

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                        • #13
                          One of the matters is that islamists ( i don' t speak about muslims ) shout that Islam is a pacefull religion full of respect of others to the point of threatening people thinking of the contrary of death .... but do not condemn people killing thousands of people in the name of Allah !

                          What if Budhists or Christians or, worts atheists, had killed thousand of people in the name of their beliefs .. would they not have condemned them and asked public condamnations?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Groakes
                            One of the great problems that democracy faces is the overwhelming onslaught of anti-democratic forces, such as the market, and organisations such as the IMF, World Bank etc who have the power to dictate how countries should model their economies and prescribe punishments to those with the temerity to disobey, but whose boards are appointed, how? Not by the popular vote that's for sure....
                            I agree. These institutions have great power and little or no official accountability. This makes them structurally an un-elected de-facto government of elite interests.

                            I'm not surprised to find Britain and America only get modest scores on the list. I'm going to investigate Sweeden's constitution soon to see how it scored so highly.

                            Plato, following perhaps the opinion of his mentor Socrates, was a little critical of democracy because he thought a democracy would be eventually subverted by the interests of one or other elite factions. As far as I know, the only forms of government he considered viable were rule by an elite, or the Commonwealth (which shares characteristics with democracy).

                            I think a democracy can work if you have a properly educated population (classically this was the old Greek demos) and a sound constitution, with accountable representatives who actually represent the people and the constitution and not just parade around pretending that they do whilst exploiting their positions to grab every buck they can for themselves and their corporate pals and toadying to other transnational interests (see Groakes post above). The constitution should be taught in schools, as the American one used to be not so long ago, then the people have a much better notion of when their representatives are going off the rails and can reign them in accordingly.
                            Last edited by Grey Mouser; 12-16-2006, 03:31 PM.

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