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Saddam to hang

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  • Saddam to hang

    Not seeing another thread on this yet. As I'm guessing we've all gathered from the news, Saddam Hussein has been sentenced to death by hanging in the verdict of his first trial. His genocide trial is still ongoing. What are our thoughts on this? Is the death penalty justified? Was the trial fair or legal? Will this make things better or worse for security in Iraq? Does this have any ramifications for other world leaders who have caused unlawful deaths by their actions? Ripe territory for debate!
    The name that can be named is not the true name.

  • #2
    My views?.....
    I find most windsocks to be a tad tacky....
    But he'll make a damned good one.
    (Don't count your lynchings 'til' after his appeal.)

    Last edited by voilodian ghagnasdiak; 11-05-2006, 06:26 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      No one desserve death penalty. Killing the man won't change anything to the situation. All the trial was a joke anyway, the sentence was long time foreseen. Who would pretend it was a surprise? It was a low parody of Nurnberg trial, with same purpose and same results.
      Free the West Memphis Three

      Comment


      • #4
        I find I can't shake the mental image of Dubya going to his pappy holding Saddam's corpse in his arms and saying, "Look Daddy, I done it all for you".

        As Mespheber says neither the verdict nor the sentence come as any surprise in this trial. It was very much a case of the judges hearing the evidence and rendering their verdict in a fair and balanced manner before finding Saddam guilty and condemning him to death. Saddam should have been tried in the Hague - as happened to other dictators like Slobodan Milosevic - but the Americans wanted to have a guarantee that Saddam could be executed. (I don't think the International Court of Justice (ICJ) at the Hague sanctions the death penalty 'though I could be wrong about that.)

        Unlike some American commentators I don't think the death of Saddam will do anything to neutralise the Insurgents. Rather his death will make him a martyr, which the Insurgents will use as a propaganda tool to show how the Americans really run the new Iraqi government.
        _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
        _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
        _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
        _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by David Mosley
          Saddam should have been tried in the Hague - as happened to other dictators like Slobodan Milosevic - but the Americans wanted to have a guarantee that Saddam could be executed. (I don't think the International Court of Justice (ICJ) at the Hague sanctions the death penalty 'though I could be wrong about that.)
          It's the ICC (International Criminal Court) that would have jurisdiction over Saddam. The ICJ is only for disputes between states, not for crimes carried out by individuals. And no, the ICC cannot impose the death penalty. However, with the involvement of the USA, there is no way that the ICC would have been used to try Saddam, as the USA don't recognise the ICC.

          Unlike some American commentators I don't think the death of Saddam will do anything to neutralise the Insurgents. Rather his death will make him a martyr, which the Insurgents will use as a propaganda tool to show how the Americans really run the new Iraqi government.
          I also have a feeling that Saddam's execution may further radicalise the warring factions in Iraq. There are a number of factors involved in the levels of violence there, but this is certainly one of them.

          Will post more in a bit. Dubya is making his live speech and I wanna hear his pearls of wisdom...
          The name that can be named is not the true name.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mespheber
            It was a low parody of Nurnberg trial, with same purpose and same results.
            Absolutely spot on.

            I don't think they should hang him. Whatever your views on the death penalty, there is a lot less prestige involved for him if he simply got banged up somewhere and forgotten about like Rudolph Hess was.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kamelion
              It's the ICC (International Criminal Court) that would have jurisdiction over Saddam. The ICJ is only for disputes between states, not for crimes carried out by individuals. And no, the ICC cannot impose the death penalty. However, with the involvement of the USA, there is no way that the ICC would have been used to try Saddam, as the USA don't recognise the ICC.
              Thanks for the clarification, K. (That'll teach me to rely on Wikipedia. )
              _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
              _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
              _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
              _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

              Comment


              • #8
                Three of his lawyers were murdered .........

                I don' t share the views of Mespheber on Nuremberg .... there were debates, accused people could defend and rigthly or wrongly some high dignitaries were not condemned to death ....

                One of the matter is that heads of state and direct helpers are seldom tried ...... even when they deserve it ..... ( i am thinking about M Kissinger for instance )

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                • #9
                  Of course Saddam is merely a Judas goat opening the way for the intrusion of western laws into the middle east. But why allow a media fiasco to develop born of never ending mistrial and appeal proceedings that will almost certainly follow his conviction? Why keep the man alive generating the costs incurred by his imprisonment and the cost of the necessary maintenance required during the time of his incarceration?
                  Be rid of the whole Saddam entity...out of site and out of mind..... A clean slate.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by johneffay
                    I don't think they should hang him. Whatever your views on the death penalty, there is a lot less prestige involved for him if he simply got banged up somewhere and forgotten about like Rudolph Hess was.
                    I share your opinion, JE, and I have the same image in my head as David, as regards Dubya.
                    Originally posted by voilodian ghagnasdiak
                    Of course Saddam is merely a Judas goat opening the way for the intrusion of western laws into the middle east. But why allow a media fiasco to develop born of never ending mistrial and appeal proceedings that will almost certainly follow his conviction? Why keep the man alive generating the costs incurred by his imprisonment and the cost of the necessary maintenance required during the time of his incarceration?
                    Be rid of the whole Saddam entity...out of site and out of mind..... A clean slate.
                    No such thing, ever, after all of this- No Way. Wishful thinking. As long as we're in there mucking around in other's affairs, it just isn't going to happen.
                    Last edited by Madrigal Rose; 11-05-2006, 01:59 PM.
                    Character, like a photograph, develops in darkness.
                    -Yousuf Karsh

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nurnberg was a joke. While high leaders were judged, Russians and Americans were sharing what remained of the n*zi organisation to improve their own services, that is CIA and KGB. It was obvious from the beginning that this trial was just in the purpose to make a show, to hit a mark. A trial was necessary, of course, but it turned into a morbid cirkus.

                      Concerning Saddam, the situation can not but reminding me trial of Jesus and the way romans tried to keep hands clean by making jewish sanhedrin judge him. Nevertheless, he became a martyr and the famest one. Is it on the purpose of americans to do as well with mister Hussein? You have to consider that muslims believe in Jesus as the Messiah and that the way the ancient leader of Iraq was pursued made an echo to an ancient story.

                      Mostly, I was shoked by CNN showing in circle images of so called "expressions of joy" to this new, while these images could be any kind of archives. Only one thing is certain: USA don't want Saddam Hussein alive. How could a trial be fair with such a pressure?
                      Last edited by Mespheber; 11-05-2006, 01:48 PM.
                      Free the West Memphis Three

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Funny how the coalition leaders (Bush, Blair, Howard etc) believe that a sign of a maturing democracy is its ability to execute its opponents... The more things change the more things stay the same.... and Australia and the UK don't even have the death penalty on the statute books....
                        Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker.
                        Bakunin

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                        • #13
                          The way in which Bush is manipulating this news in the closing hours of the mid-term elections is both unsurprising and extremely cynical. I just hope the US electorate are savvy enough not to be taken in by this (but I'm not optimistic).

                          Saddam got rid of his enemies by killing them.
                          Bush gets rid of his 'enemy' by killing him.
                          *sigh* No, I can't see the distinction myself.
                          _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                          _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                          _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                          _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Groakes
                            the UK don't even have the death penalty on the statute books....
                            Well, quite. the fact that members of the UK government can welcome this sentence as a victory for Iraqi sovereignty disgusts me.
                            Mrs Beckett said: "I welcome that Saddam Hussein and the other defendants have faced justice and have been held to account for their crimes. "Appalling crimes were committed by Saddam Hussein's regime. It is right that those accused of such crimes against the Iraqi people should face Iraqi justice (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6118134.stm)
                            As far as I can see, 'Iraqi justice' entails acid baths and electric drills. Perhaps she would welcome these being used on Saddam as well.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by David Mosley
                              The way in which Bush is manipulating this news in the closing hours of the mid-term elections is both unsurprising and extremely cynical. I just hope the US electorate are savvy enough not to be taken in by this (but I'm not optimistic).

                              Saddam got rid of his enemies by killing them.
                              Bush gets rid of his 'enemy' by killing him.
                              *sigh* No, I can't see the distinction myself.
                              As my girlfriend said: the main distinction is that Saddam Hussein was a trve leader while George Bush is just a puppet in an administration. Elected or not will there be a difference in american politic? I deeply doubt of it considering the way they dealt during Nam.

                              Project for the New American Century on Wikipedia, and their official site...
                              Free the West Memphis Three

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