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Reinart der Fuchs
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Schools Under Fire.

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  • Miqque
    replied
    For extended comments by your faithful correspondent, please see http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=64384

    What's interesting is that this and tat threads both follow the same pattern; extrapolating from Columbine (just down the road, here) and the recent incidents (one here, one in the Amish community). These involve guns and, to some extent, drugs and mental illness.

    For those without time or interest in seeking that link, my position is this.

    We have made American schools into prisons for children. Personal responsibility has been waning, and is now at low ebb. Only persons who are both intelligent and responsible should have access to potent and deadly instruments - whether these be guns, automobiles, medications (natural or manufactured), or educating children. This is a severe lack in our society. Love and intelligent caring must overwhelm the mentally ill and/or irresponsible people impacting our kids.

    And no ideas of arming the teachers, please!

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  • Madrigal Rose
    replied
    Originally posted by invalid nickname
    Very likely, but I figure if anything would get the Amish riled up, it would be an attack on thier children.
    Well, apparently it didn't. I was moved when I read this. I am quite certain I would not be so forgiving were I in their place. I hope never to have to find out...

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  • Kamelion
    replied
    Originally posted by johneffay
    Did this guy not target the Amish school on the basis that he knew they would not fight back?
    Not so far as I heard. My understanding was simply that it was the closest. I can't imagine him having expected a large degree of resistance from a single-classroom primary school either way, so I don't think that was a factor.

    Leave a comment:


  • invalid nickname
    replied
    Originally posted by johneffay
    Did this guy not target the Amish school on the basis that he knew they would not fight back?
    Very likely, but I figure if anything would get the Amish riled up, it would be an attack on thier children. My comment was more towards the general level of brilliance found in knee-jerk legislation. Since Columbine, the number of school shootings seems to have been sky-rocketing, I suspect this trend is not being dampened by legislation that makes it safer for the shooter.

    Leave a comment:


  • johneffay
    replied
    Originally posted by invalid nickname
    In fact the legislation that followed Columbine actually makes it easier for psychos like that to prey on schools by removing the possibility of armed response from the school staff.
    Did this guy not target the Amish school on the basis that he knew they would not fight back?

    Leave a comment:


  • invalid nickname
    replied
    Originally posted by Theocrat
    I read now that an Amish school has had a columbine incident recently.
    A peaceful sect living outside the modern world. I really don't know what to think about this?

    How many shootings does this make this year?
    According to the article it's the 'third shooting' this week?

    Any Americans who want to say something about this?
    Yes, I would like to say Columbine was the result of a few really f up students running amuck, this was a really f up milk truck driver - not the same thing. In fact the legislation that followed Columbine actually makes it easier for psychos like that to prey on schools by removing the possibility of armed response from the school staff.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morgan Kane
    replied
    The topic is not only about weapons owning ......

    The truth is that there are more and more people acting as mad men ..... .

    In my youth, the word amok was something reserverd to a strange habit in an underdevelopped country .

    Leave a comment:


  • Reinart der Fuchs
    replied
    I don't own a weapon at the moment, and I probably never will. The experiences I shared above was to give our European friends a feel for one American's everyday experiences with weapons. I wasn't really trying to make an argument for or against. My comment in this post is a statement of personal choice. I'm convinced owning a weapon would likely increase the opportunity for something fatal to occur in my life. Possessing a gun is no garuntee that you will be able to defend yourself from an armed attacker. I feel it increases the likelihood that violence will escalate into a fatal incident. The only blood I could tolerate being on my hands is my own after I've been shot down by someone I've attempted to disarm with my bare hands. I'm joking, of course. But seriously, I would do almost anything anyone told me to do if I were at the mercy of a gun. Having a gun of my own boils it down to:

    * one of two surrendering
    * one shooting the other
    * both shooting one another

    The odds are in the favor someone being killed. Without my own weapon I boil it down to a surrender with the diminishing prospect of death. Who could say I have no courage? The probability is that I will live to point my finger at the bastard in court. From the looks of it, the American prison system is a fate worse than death.

    I don't appreciate Walmart or the NRA increasing the possibility that I will be on my knees, muzzle to muzzle with a weapon begging some gun looney, criminal, pschyo or police officer for my life. If you are some gun looney who "HAS THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS AND I'M GUNNA DO IT AND AIN'T NONE O Y'ALL GONNA TAKE MUH GUNS AWAY 'CAUSE I'M AN AMURKIN BY GOD!" then I haven't got a lot of appreciation for your point of view. You and your looney malitia can fuck off. How many of your children are you going to murder you wackos? How man dogs are you going to kick? How many wives are you going to beat and rape?

    I do, however, support the responsible ownership of registered weapons by rational Americans. Our government has to be afraid of something.
    Last edited by Reinart der Fuchs; 10-07-2006, 08:14 PM.

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  • Madrigal Rose
    replied
    I am against gun control, even though I grew up in California, where so many seem to be in favor of it. Actually, because of my experiences in Los Angeles and San Francisco, I wouldn't want the cops and low-lifes to be the only ones left with guns. That would be a very bad thing. The only time I actually considered getting a handgun was when I lived in a fairly scary neighborhood in San Francisco and my (now ex) husband worked graveyard shift.

    Since I have been in rural FL I have more respect for the people Doc refers to- hunters, people who learn how to use guns and don't make a big deal about it.

    It's bow season. I like that. It's so much quieter. I have to admit that it is a bit unnerving hearing rifles/shotguns during hunting season, but then I'm sure that's left over from living in the big city...

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    To (perhaps) add a bit to what RdF and Lemec have said--

    I grew up around guns in a rural area, where many people hunted and shot for sport. (Those who know me can guess what I think about hunting, but that is not the point of this bit of rambling...) The people who were taught to respect guns were the same people who actually used them for sport, never making a big deal about having them. They kept them unloaded, with amunition stored separately. Some I know kept a loaded weapon in their bedroom (for "protection"--again, something I could addres but won't), but didn't let too many people know about it.

    These people are a stark contrast to those I knew who bought a pistol and wanted everyone to know about. They seem to revel in the idea of a gun and what it can do. Rather than respecting its power, deep down they were fascinated about its utility.

    I would never worry about the former group going nuts with gun violence. I often worry about the latter.

    While I don't support a gun culture, there is a way to get it right, if it has to be a reality.

    By the way, RdF, you were supposed to keep your hearing protection in your left breast pocket, where it wouldn't fall in the sand. You should have had to do push-ups, not fire a weapon. That is irresponsible.

    As a barely related aside (hey, its Berry's fault for mentioning rifle training in the Army ), I wore glasses in basic training, and the lens in my shooting eye busted right when we began rifle training. I had to shoot with my one-lensed glasses turned upside down so I could see downrange until I could get a new pair. More good times in the Army...

    Leave a comment:


  • lemec
    replied
    Good point, Morgan Kane.

    Not the whole populace is that way, of course.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morgan Kane
    replied
    The united states are one of the developped country where there is the maximum of jailed people ...... in proportion, 7 times the number of people jailed in France .......

    The problem is threefold, education, socialisation and maturity

    People are imature and desocialised children ...... from politician to gang men .....

    My will is my right !

    Leave a comment:


  • lemec
    replied
    Hello, Reinart der Fuchs,

    Last edited by lemec; 10-07-2006, 03:12 AM.

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  • Idiot_Savant
    replied
    Your first link is broken, Reinart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reinart der Fuchs
    replied
    I can only speak for myself, though my experiences may speak for a broader audience who have similiar experiences. Guns are a part of the American's everyday life. Here are a couple of personal experiences with guns apart from guns that appear in the hands of television good and bad guys, guns in cartoons (one memorable Daffy Duck v.s. Bugs Bunny http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045062/usercomments), toy guns and guns in the news (1997 saw 1300+ deaths by weapon fire http://www.iir.com/nygc/Municipal%20...e--weapons.htm and maybe someone can find a link to that video of the LAPD in a firefight with a gang in a fucking neighborhood):

    * A cadet brought home a loaded weapon and his little brother blew himself away with it
    * I shot a BB gun through a window in our backyard (under supervision)
    * I was trained with an M-16 in the military (an my hearing is degernating because my drill Sgt. made me fire without my earplugs that I had unluckily lost in the sand)
    * I have heard gun fire during the 4th of July and New Years
    * I have handled an Israeli assault rifle, that was later used to commit suicide and then was sold to some gang members
    * I have listened to multiple people brag about their weapons collections

    Of all these experiences, only one person expressed the importance of keeping weapons unloaded and in weapons safe.

    My greatest worry for the future within this context is the Starbucksification/Walmartification of weapon sales. The Disneyfication of weapons has already happened.

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?...age=2&so=0&lr=
    Last edited by Reinart der Fuchs; 10-06-2006, 12:47 PM.

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