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the Pope and Islam :

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  • johneffay
    replied
    Originally posted by Sailor on the Seas of Freight
    but any religion that allows for women to be executed if they don't wear a veil over their faces is at least 300 years behind the times.
    It's a good thing that Islam doesn't allow for this then, isn't it? Generalisations based upon the practices of extreme factions within a religion are not very helpful.

    Leave a comment:


  • redbeard
    replied
    Religion and politics killed my friendships. Not violence.

    Leave a comment:


  • David Mosley
    replied
    It does seem to me that (some) muslims aren't very good at 'turning the other cheek'.

    (But that's just my opinion from within a nominally Christian environment.)
    Last edited by David Mosley; 01-26-2007, 11:17 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sailor on the Seas of Freight
    replied
    Bottom line is...the Pope's right, in a way. Remember the numerous death threats to Salman Rushdie over The Satanic Verses? That Dutch newspaper that ran the cartoon of Mohammed? The photographer L'E mentioned? How about the fact that the majority of terrorist groups today are Islamist?

    I don't care whether it's the pot calling the kettle black, because I'm an unbiased observer as regards Catholicism vs. Islamism (or pretty much any religion, for that matter). If you do something publicly regarding their religion that Islamists don't like, you become a target.

    This is not to say that there aren't morally 'good' followers of Islam, but any religion that allows for women to be executed if they don't wear a veil over their faces is at least 300 years behind the times. An eye for an eye went out centuries ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morgan Kane
    replied
    In France a muslim has just be sentenced to jail because he insulted and hit the male obsetrician who ausculted his wife after child birthing, to punish him of having violated her decency .

    Leave a comment:


  • voilodian ghagnasdiak
    replied
    CNN:
    "We're doing a story about the conflict between the cabbies and the airport. The Muslim drivers have been refusing to take passengers carrying alcohol, such as wine or liquor purchased at a duty free shop,"About three quarters of the 900 cabbies serving the airport are Muslim, and many have been regularly refusing passengers carrying beer, wine or liquor.In the past five years, 5,400 would-be taxi passengers at the airport were refused service for this very reason, said the Metropolitan Airport Commission,

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/25/opp...ies/index.html
    This is dicrimination against the ways of western society as a whole. This work to rule campaign should not be allowed to carry on. If the cabbies are refusing rides to sober, law abiding clientele due to religious beliefs, they should be ousted from the St. Paul International Airport. All the cabbies that I have ever seen have been allowed to wear their turbans and can stop work for prayer. These actions are only helping to further muslim segregation from modern society.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marie-Bernadette
    replied
    Originally posted by Theocrat
    Isn't this new pope from austria? What is it with austria really?
    So many weird people come from there..
    Originally posted by Morgan Kane
    Freud ?
    And Hitler. And Arnold Schwartzenegger.

    Damn -- maybe it's somethin' in the water.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Agreeing with VG, here, about the media fueling already volitle situations.

    Imagine how much more we would have heard about this if he were Muslim...

    Leave a comment:


  • Morgan Kane
    replied
    For me, to be a pacifist and to refuse to serve in army because of philosophical opinions is a right,

    but to refuse in a muslmim army because christian is a mark of fanatism !

    Leave a comment:


  • voilodian ghagnasdiak
    replied
    Turkish Hijacker Surrenders
    First reports suggested there were two hijackers, protesting against the Pope, but the one man now in custody is a Turkish army deserter seeking asylum.
    The media has a knack for fuelling already volatile situations. Where was the information acquired from that led to this remark being spread throughout worldwide news sources?

    Initial reports suggested that two hijackers had wanted to deliver a message to Pope Benedict, angry at his recent comments in a lecture in Germany which appeared to link Islam and violence.
    The fact of the matter is that Hakan Ekinci is an army deserter from Turkey that had previously converted to Christianity and refused to serve in a Muslim army.

    Hakan Ekinci Letter To Pope Benedict Before The Hijacking:
    In it the soldier pleads with the Pope for help with his asylum claim as a Christian.
    Again he says he has been forced to join the army against his will and claims he was imprisoned and ill-treated for refusing.
    The Turkish foreign ministry confirmed for the BBC that the hijacker, who is 28, was on the run from the army.
    Im almost certain that more than half of the people that read the initial headlines dont ever learn the true outcome of the story. Propaganda forms opinions that are quite often cast in stone. I know that army desertion and hijacking are very strongly frowned upon but in the same breath I can understand Hakan Ekinci's level of frustration.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5403976.stm

    Leave a comment:


  • voilodian ghagnasdiak
    replied
    Iran needs enriched uranium solely for peaceful purposes...not according to this recently surfaced letter from Ayatollah Khomeini written in 1988.
    BBC NEWS:
    The letter from Ayatollah Khomeini lists the requirements of military commanders if they are to continue fighting against Iraq. It mentions more aircraft, helicopters, men and weapons, and also quotes the top commander saying Iran would within five years need laser-guided and atomic weapons in order to win the war.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5392584.stm

    Leave a comment:


  • voilodian ghagnasdiak
    replied
    BBC NEWS:
    Russia and Iran have signed a deal in Moscow to launch Iran's nuclear reactor at Bushehr in September next year, officials in Moscow say.They say the Russian-built reactor will be fully operational in November 2007.
    Iran had feared Russia would delay the launch because of international tension over Iran's nuclear activities, correspondents say.
    The UN Security Council has told Iran to halt uranium enrichment amid fears it is trying to build nuclear arms.
    Russian atomic energy agency spokesman Sergey Novikov said the date was fixed in an additional agreement to the original contract to build the reactor.
    It came after Iranian officials apparently urged their Russian counterparts to speed up work to finish the plant.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5380874.stm
    I for one will not be railroaded into any sect regardless of its origin or threats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry Cornelius
    replied
    This time the Vatican has gone too far! I am outraged!


    Vatican: Extremists Undermining Religion

    By ANNA DOLGOV
    Associated Press Writer

    UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- The Vatican's foreign minister said Wednesday that misunderstanding between cultures is breeding a "new barbarism" and expressed hope that reason and dialogue would stop those who use their faith as a pretext for attacks.

    In a speech on the closing day of the U.N. General Assembly's ministerial meeting, Giovanni Lajolo said extremists are far from devout and undermine the very religion they claim to defend.


    "Violent reactions are always a falsification of true religion," Lajolo said in a passage devoted to the pope's Sept. 12 speech at Regensburg University in Germany.

    Benedict XVI quoted words attributed to a 14th century Byzantine emperor: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

    Muslims angered by the remarks took to the streets in Indonesia, Turkey and Syria. Churches were attacked in the West Bank; an effigy of the pope was burned in Iraq; and a nun was shot dead in Somalia in an apparently related attack.

    Lajolo reiterated the Vatican's view that Benedict's remarks were misinterpreted. He said the pope has sought only to promote rational dialogue and understanding.

    Benedict has expressed regret for offending Muslims and said they did not reflect his personal views, but he has not offered a complete apology as some had sought.

    Lajolo suggested that the anger may also lie in the lack of understanding between religions, and a schism between reason and faith.

    "As the Pope affirmed, were reason to turn a deaf ear to the divine and relegate religion to the ambit of subcultures, it would automatically provoke violent reactions," Lajolo, who also serves as president of the Governatorate of the Vatican City State, told the assembly.


    "It falls to all interested parties - to civil society as well as to states - to promote religious freedom and a sane, social tolerance that will disarm extremists even before they can begin to corrupt others with their hatred of life and liberty," he said.

    Lajolo referred to the story of the Tower of Babel, saying the "confusion of tongues" in the Biblical city was a symbol of fracturing and hostilities in the contemporary world.

    "Human pride hampers the acknowledgment of one's neighbor and the recognition of his or her needs and even more makes people distrusting," he said.

    "Today, that same negative fundamental attitude has given rise to a new barbarism that threatens world peace," the Vatican minister said.
    Terrorists bent on "rejecting the best achievements of our civilization" are one example, Lajolo said.


    Major powers, in their attempt to make the world more fair, may also occasionally slide into believing that this can only be achieved by force, he said.

    "It can go so far as to regard the possession of nuclear weapons as an element of national pride," he said.


    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UN_GENERAL_ASSEMBLY_VATICAN?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME &TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-09-28-02-29-08

    Leave a comment:


  • johneffay
    replied
    Originally posted by Carter Kaplan
    Anyvbody got a link to the text of the Pope's paper?
    As I mentioned earlier, you can get to a .pdf of it from this page:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5348456.stm

    Leave a comment:


  • Morgan Kane
    replied
    Sorry, i have only the text in French :

    http://www.crashsystem.com/eltanin/v...asc&highlight=

    Leave a comment:

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