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the Pope and Islam :

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mespheber
    After much outcry from Roman Catholics, the film's US title was changed by the addition of a single letter. The new title, "The Pope Must Diet", was marked on some promotional material with the final letter "T" in the form of a crucifix.
    It's not that bad a film really - mind you, I only saw it once on TV over 10 years ago.
    _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
    _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
    _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
    _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."


    • #32
      As well, I saw it on tv in Ireland in 1994 (BBC), pretty cool.
      Free the West Memphis Three


      • #33
        Originally posted by voilodian ghagnasdiak
        Being realistic,.. everything has a pricetag.
        Of course Iran could have purchased said weaponry from various resources with its vast wealth.(Russia?)
        By enriching uranium Iran is making a global statement acclaiming its ascent into the superpower regime.
        Israel was definitely the first Middle Eastern nuclear power (not that they admit they are a nuclear power). This is easily verifiable.

        Iran is not a nuclear power. If they looked close to becoming a nuclear power, Israel and/or the US would take away that capability by any means possible.

        By enriching uranium Iran is certainly making a global statement, but not the one you claim. They are deliberately playing a game of brinkmanship which goes down well amongst muslim populations and serves to highlight the gap between themselves and the US/Israel (who are synonymous in radical muslim eyes). It is quite likely that one of the reasons their rhetoric is so agressive at the minute is that they perceive (rightly or wrongly) the US/Israeli forces to be too stretched in other theatres to be an immediate threat to them.

        Should Iran this game up, the likelihood is thay they will face attack from the US/Israel who will use black propaganda about the state of Iran's nuclear programme as justification in the same way as was done with Iraq and WMD. There is already an enormous amount of black propaganda about Iran coming from the Whitehouse.

        To say that it's all a bit depressing is something of an understatement.


        • #34
          If what is said is true ..... The main vector of dissemination of nuclear technology in middle east was an american lobby of big companies and politicians working with turkish army and politicians some of them near el quaida .....

          To come bacjk to the topic ..... The papal talk was not centered on islam but the quote is made gives a good idea of what he thinks .....

          he says that chrisitianism is superior to other religions because it admitted the greek philosophy as a component. the result is that for a chrisitan god is acting in the limits of ( human ) reason in a ( humanly ) reasonnable way ....

          What is true is that the greek inheritance is a big part of the modern catholicism, it being far remote from primmitive chrsitianism.

          the mixing was difficult : see the dispute about icones in Byzance !

          the matter is that is is most probable that, for instance, for primitive chrisitians christ was the messiah but far from being a god .......

          bible and chrisitan texts have loudly borrowed to other sources ...... ( from babylon and egypt to Mithra cult ) !


          • #35
            Anyvbody got a link to the text of the Pope's paper?



            • #36
              Sorry, i have only the text in French :



              • #37
                Originally posted by Carter Kaplan
                Anyvbody got a link to the text of the Pope's paper?
                As I mentioned earlier, you can get to a .pdf of it from this page:


                • #38
                  This time the Vatican has gone too far! I am outraged!

                  Vatican: Extremists Undermining Religion

                  By ANNA DOLGOV
                  Associated Press Writer

                  UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- The Vatican's foreign minister said Wednesday that misunderstanding between cultures is breeding a "new barbarism" and expressed hope that reason and dialogue would stop those who use their faith as a pretext for attacks.

                  In a speech on the closing day of the U.N. General Assembly's ministerial meeting, Giovanni Lajolo said extremists are far from devout and undermine the very religion they claim to defend.

                  "Violent reactions are always a falsification of true religion," Lajolo said in a passage devoted to the pope's Sept. 12 speech at Regensburg University in Germany.

                  Benedict XVI quoted words attributed to a 14th century Byzantine emperor: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

                  Muslims angered by the remarks took to the streets in Indonesia, Turkey and Syria. Churches were attacked in the West Bank; an effigy of the pope was burned in Iraq; and a nun was shot dead in Somalia in an apparently related attack.

                  Lajolo reiterated the Vatican's view that Benedict's remarks were misinterpreted. He said the pope has sought only to promote rational dialogue and understanding.

                  Benedict has expressed regret for offending Muslims and said they did not reflect his personal views, but he has not offered a complete apology as some had sought.

                  Lajolo suggested that the anger may also lie in the lack of understanding between religions, and a schism between reason and faith.

                  "As the Pope affirmed, were reason to turn a deaf ear to the divine and relegate religion to the ambit of subcultures, it would automatically provoke violent reactions," Lajolo, who also serves as president of the Governatorate of the Vatican City State, told the assembly.

                  "It falls to all interested parties - to civil society as well as to states - to promote religious freedom and a sane, social tolerance that will disarm extremists even before they can begin to corrupt others with their hatred of life and liberty," he said.

                  Lajolo referred to the story of the Tower of Babel, saying the "confusion of tongues" in the Biblical city was a symbol of fracturing and hostilities in the contemporary world.

                  "Human pride hampers the acknowledgment of one's neighbor and the recognition of his or her needs and even more makes people distrusting," he said.

                  "Today, that same negative fundamental attitude has given rise to a new barbarism that threatens world peace," the Vatican minister said.
                  Terrorists bent on "rejecting the best achievements of our civilization" are one example, Lajolo said.

                  Major powers, in their attempt to make the world more fair, may also occasionally slide into believing that this can only be achieved by force, he said.

                  "It can go so far as to regard the possession of nuclear weapons as an element of national pride," he said.

                  "Jerry Cornelius was based, for instance, on a young man I used to see around Notting Hill where there was also a greengrocer called Cornelius of London."

                  --Michael Moorcock


                  • #39
                    BBC NEWS:
                    Russia and Iran have signed a deal in Moscow to launch Iran's nuclear reactor at Bushehr in September next year, officials in Moscow say.They say the Russian-built reactor will be fully operational in November 2007.
                    Iran had feared Russia would delay the launch because of international tension over Iran's nuclear activities, correspondents say.
                    The UN Security Council has told Iran to halt uranium enrichment amid fears it is trying to build nuclear arms.
                    Russian atomic energy agency spokesman Sergey Novikov said the date was fixed in an additional agreement to the original contract to build the reactor.
                    It came after Iranian officials apparently urged their Russian counterparts to speed up work to finish the plant.

                    I for one will not be railroaded into any sect regardless of its origin or threats.


                    • #40
                      Iran needs enriched uranium solely for peaceful purposes...not according to this recently surfaced letter from Ayatollah Khomeini written in 1988.
                      BBC NEWS:
                      The letter from Ayatollah Khomeini lists the requirements of military commanders if they are to continue fighting against Iraq. It mentions more aircraft, helicopters, men and weapons, and also quotes the top commander saying Iran would within five years need laser-guided and atomic weapons in order to win the war.



                      • #41
                        Turkish Hijacker Surrenders
                        First reports suggested there were two hijackers, protesting against the Pope, but the one man now in custody is a Turkish army deserter seeking asylum.
                        The media has a knack for fuelling already volatile situations. Where was the information acquired from that led to this remark being spread throughout worldwide news sources?

                        Initial reports suggested that two hijackers had wanted to deliver a message to Pope Benedict, angry at his recent comments in a lecture in Germany which appeared to link Islam and violence.
                        The fact of the matter is that Hakan Ekinci is an army deserter from Turkey that had previously converted to Christianity and refused to serve in a Muslim army.

                        Hakan Ekinci Letter To Pope Benedict Before The Hijacking:
                        In it the soldier pleads with the Pope for help with his asylum claim as a Christian.
                        Again he says he has been forced to join the army against his will and claims he was imprisoned and ill-treated for refusing.
                        The Turkish foreign ministry confirmed for the BBC that the hijacker, who is 28, was on the run from the army.
                        Im almost certain that more than half of the people that read the initial headlines dont ever learn the true outcome of the story. Propaganda forms opinions that are quite often cast in stone. I know that army desertion and hijacking are very strongly frowned upon but in the same breath I can understand Hakan Ekinci's level of frustration.



                        • #42
                          For me, to be a pacifist and to refuse to serve in army because of philosophical opinions is a right,

                          but to refuse in a muslmim army because christian is a mark of fanatism !


                          • #43
                            Agreeing with VG, here, about the media fueling already volitle situations.

                            Imagine how much more we would have heard about this if he were Muslim...


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Theocrat
                              Isn't this new pope from austria? What is it with austria really?
                              So many weird people come from there..
                              Originally posted by Morgan Kane
                              Freud ?
                              And Hitler. And Arnold Schwartzenegger.

                              Damn -- maybe it's somethin' in the water.
                              WWED -- What Would Elric Do?


                              • #45
                                "We're doing a story about the conflict between the cabbies and the airport. The Muslim drivers have been refusing to take passengers carrying alcohol, such as wine or liquor purchased at a duty free shop,"About three quarters of the 900 cabbies serving the airport are Muslim, and many have been regularly refusing passengers carrying beer, wine or liquor.In the past five years, 5,400 would-be taxi passengers at the airport were refused service for this very reason, said the Metropolitan Airport Commission,

                                This is dicrimination against the ways of western society as a whole. This work to rule campaign should not be allowed to carry on. If the cabbies are refusing rides to sober, law abiding clientele due to religious beliefs, they should be ousted from the St. Paul International Airport. All the cabbies that I have ever seen have been allowed to wear their turbans and can stop work for prayer. These actions are only helping to further muslim segregation from modern society.