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The military as losers? Really?

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  • The military as losers? Really?

    Just when you thought Trump could go no lower. It’s clear that he really is incapable of understanding what public service is, or any contribution to the common good. We had more than enough evidence of
    this already, but this is announcing it in neon.

    And some people will excuse it or spin it. Others will
    deny it. And others will shrug.

  • #2
    Seems like the best you can hope for is that it erodes some support with otherwise supportive people.

    Like the war that produced the graveyard he didn't visit, it's a war of attrition between two entrenched sides. One side, however, seems more stubbornly entrenched and their recent use of unmarked federal agents and armed militia makes them look a lot more like the Deutsches Heer in Belleau Wood than the Marines. At least to this distant reporter.
    Last edited by Heresiologist; 09-05-2020, 05:38 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's puzzling ...( Dave, my mind is going ...i can feel it ...😶)...why would The President demonstrate so much antipathy towards such a major section of his voter base demographic?

      Of course and just like countless times before D T has called all reports of his latest gaffe yet another media misinformation assault on his reputation by the (supposed) shadowy deep state forces set upon his political ruination.

      Trying and failing to understand the mindset not only of The Donald but also his more extreme supporters. My apologies in advance for the next link yet i feel that only one Jello Biafra has the words for what i would really like to say :

      https://youtu.be/l3bDYhOYPDg







      Last edited by Kymba334; 09-06-2020, 05:00 AM. Reason: Still glitching....
      Mwana wa simba ni simba

      The child of a lion is also a lion - Swahili Wisdom

      Comment


      • #4
        I remember just how shocked I was, when President Trump attacked McCain, saying that he was a loser because he got captured, how he preferred winners. This, from the draft dodging, compulsive multiple bankrupt. But then, I also remember how the Republican party also attacked Kerry, with a targetted campaign: the 'swift boaters,' undermining his Vietnam War record. So, it's not just President Pumpkinhead who has a total disdain for the very military upon which the US relies for it's security & reach. His present party of convenience has previous on that score. See also, Ted 'I sh*t my pants' Nugent.

        Also, Although McCain had a reputation for being a Republican hawk, I personally still believe that if he had gained the nomination & become PotUS, back in 2001, the World might be slightly better off, today. As for 2009, the bad choice of running mate, Palin, blew him out of the water. I also cannot understand how anybody could fail to be impressed by McCain's Vietnam record. One of my first girlfriends lost her father in 'Nam, when he was shot down flying military transports, so I do kind of understand just how much Trump's opinion truly sucks.

        Comment


        • #5
          It isn't just the Military that Trump would risk alienating; in spite of the potential for negative repercussions to himself certain members of the Fourth Estate could also find themselves caught up in The Donald's wild Fox Hunt.

          D T might just be at risk of picking fights with the wrong sort of enemies...the question that arises though is does he even know who his real friends and allies are anymore?
          🙄

          This article from The Guardian : https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...oldiers-losers
          Last edited by Kymba334; 09-06-2020, 09:19 PM. Reason: really scatterbrained this week...
          Mwana wa simba ni simba

          The child of a lion is also a lion - Swahili Wisdom

          Comment


          • #6
            Mind you, if you remember Trump in 2016 saying that Americans would eventually get sick of winning and ask him to stop? One thousand of his fellow citizens dead per day because he has no idea how to handle a crisis like the COVID-19 pandemic, and you begin to understand that "loser" from Trump is a compliment of the very highest order - just completely unintended, of course. If he calls you a "winner", your fate is sealed - or walrused, depending on circumstances
            sigpic Myself as Mephistopheles (Karen Koed's painting of me, 9 Nov 2008, U of Canterbury, CHCH, NZ)

            Gold is the power of a man with a man
            And incense the power of man with God
            But myrrh is the bitter taste of death
            And the sour-sweet smell of the upturned sod,

            Nativity,
            by Peter Cape

            Comment


            • #7
              The saddest aspect of this situation, like so many others where DT is concerned, is how so many of his supporters will find ways to excuse the behavior and find some way to twist it to show that he is even in more support of the military--or just flat out ignore it because it doesn't line up with their narrative of who he is and what they think he represents.
              "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
              --Thomas a Kempis

              Comment


              • #8
                It’s really odd the degree to which John Kerry, an actual war hero, was denigrated for his service by the “pro-military” party. The swift boating of the Kerry campaign came from people who wanted to frame Bush as Rambo, even if his service record is sketchy, but at least it was real. I think it primed people to forgive and even encourage attacks on service that we’re seeing. Obviously it’s appalling, and the hypocrisy has been screaming at us since that election.

                But this is even more twisted. Somehow the person who fundamentally does not understand service to others or to the nation is a hero and John McCain, a lifelong Republican and hero (especially to Republicans) is a loser. Yet even McCain’s friends were silent. And then Gold Star families were somehow acceptable targets. And now all fallen military. But somehow it’s okay because it is Trump to his supporters.

                I know saying “imagine if Obama had said that”
                has been completely exhausted by now, but I really cannot imagine the outrage machine in high gear for months. But Trump says it, people are upset for awhile, and then everyone is forced to move on to his next outrageous, ignorant, and indefensible remark. I’m not numb, but I’m certainly tired. There’s almost no more emotional energy to spend. Another four years of this?

                Comment


                • #9
                  The silence from Republicans around the McCain incident goes right back to issue of party and that the POTUS is de facto head of his (hopefully someday, her) party.

                  I don't think we need fear another four years of it, one way or the other. The truth is that given the current climate and the recent normalization of rioting if DT eeks out an electoral victory this fall every major metropolitan area will erupt in uncontrolled chaos. Perhaps I am being pessimistic (or optimistic depending on your point of view...I haven't really settled that myself even) but I do honestly, and earnestly, believe a DT repeat will plunge us into general strife.
                  "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
                  --Thomas a Kempis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Doc View Post
                    Just when you thought Trump could go no lower. It’s clear that he really is incapable of understanding what public service is, or any contribution to the common good. We had more than enough evidence of
                    this already, but this is announcing it in neon.

                    And some people will excuse it or spin it. Others will
                    deny it. And others will shrug.
                    He actually said that? Man, and to think that I once thought he was ok. Shame on him.
                    "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                    "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EverKing View Post
                      The silence from Republicans around the McCain incident goes right back to issue of party and that the POTUS is de facto head of his (hopefully someday, her) party.

                      I don't think we need fear another four years of it, one way or the other. The truth is that given the current climate and the recent normalization of rioting if DT eeks out an electoral victory this fall every major metropolitan area will erupt in uncontrolled chaos. Perhaps I am being pessimistic (or optimistic depending on your point of view...I haven't really settled that myself even) but I do honestly, and earnestly, believe a DT repeat will plunge us into general strife.
                      The silence overt the McCain slam was worse than party over country. It was Trump over party over country. The cowardice would seem ironic if it wasn’t so pathetic.

                      @ Everking, I’m not so sure we won’t have rioting and violence no matter what happens. I certainly won’t be walking the streets any time right after the election. Things are going to explode. The difference between a Biden victory and a Trump victory is the world
                      will continue to erupt if Trump wins a second term. It’s clear that he wants his supporters to turn into militias “protecting” liberal cities. If his actions in Kenosha are any indication, he could order Barr and the justice department to not prosecute right wing vigilantes. Right wing domestic terrorism is already a grave and increasing danger. A Trump victory makes those groups co-equals of law enforcement.






                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zlogdan View Post

                        He actually said that? Man, and to think that I once thought he was ok. Shame on him.
                        All of this and worse.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Doc View Post
                          The silence overt the McCain slam was worse than party over country. It was Trump over party over country. The cowardice would seem ironic if it wasn’t so pathetic.
                          That was my point, actually. As crazy as the Republican party can seem at times, the McCain incident was a tipping point that displayed the problem of the Party falling in line behind a poor excuse for a POTUS.

                          Originally posted by Doc View Post
                          @ Everking, I’m not so sure we won’t have rioting and violence no matter what happens. I certainly won’t be walking the streets any time right after the election. Things are going to explode. The difference between a Biden victory and a Trump victory is the world
                          will continue to erupt if Trump wins a second term. It’s clear that he wants his supporters to turn into militias “protecting” liberal cities. If his actions in Kenosha are any indication, he could order Barr and the justice department to not prosecute right wing vigilantes. Right wing domestic terrorism is already a grave and increasing danger. A Trump victory makes those groups co-equals of law enforcement.
                          You could be correct. I do think the response from the Trumpeters may not be as immediate or as destructive in the wake of a Biden victory. Instead, I see the empowerment of the Left in that case causing a reaction from the Right which will boil over the course of several months. The biggest fear in this case would be DT wanting to go out with a wail instead of a whimper and using his last two months in office to encourage a right uprising against the left. Otherwise, I could see it happening after Biden takes office and the Right fear of cultural change eventually leads them to strike out against what they perceive as an increasingly totalitarian Left. Conversely, a DT victory, I believe, will lead to an immediate and dramatic reaction from the Left as early as November 4th. Either way, the next year or more could be a time of great trouble in this country. I can only hope that in the end whatever chaos we survive will lead to a more just and equal society.
                          "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
                          --Thomas a Kempis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think you’re right about a time of great trouble coming no matter what happens. I would say our democracy has been damaged over the last four years, but that is an understatement. The last four years have damaged the idea of democracy. I’m not sure there’s any way back from the divisiveness and acrimony that doesn’t involve more divisiveness and acrimony. It will get worse before it gets better. And the armed idiots in the self-styles militias are certain to make things very very bad.

                            As it relates to this thread, one of the many ironies of the right wing militia movement is they act as if they are the guardians of democracy. And of course they are the ones who won’t serve as a career, because that requires actual service, and not just a gun fetish.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Doc View Post
                              I think you’re right about a time of great trouble coming no matter what happens. I would say our democracy has been damaged over the last four years, but that is an understatement. The last four years have damaged the idea of democracy. I’m not sure there’s any way back from the divisiveness and acrimony that doesn’t involve more divisiveness and acrimony. It will get worse before it gets better. And the armed idiots in the self-styles militias are certain to make things very very bad.

                              As it relates to this thread, one of the many ironies of the right wing militia movement is they act as if they are the guardians of democracy. And of course they are the ones who won’t serve as a career, because that requires actual service, and not just a gun fetish.
                              The ultra-Right militias are very troubling. It isn't as much a gun fetish that drives them as a fantasy born of Red Dawn scenarios. They want to play soldier without the control, limits, or responsibility. Many of them were probably denied the privilege of serving or had served for a time and were mustered out for one reason or another. Regardless of the specifics, there is real danger in their blind ideologies and violent fantasies.

                              Of course, I think the reality of what may happen is a bit more nuanced that the self-declared militias acting out. It all depends on how the Election goes. If the Dems take it, DT will find some excuse to delay the certification of the results--he'll contest it on likely unfounded grounds using supposed issues with mail-in voting. His overreach and delays will then spark a resistance, first from the radical left who have shown increasing tendencies toward violence in recent years. DT will use that unrest and violence to extend is executive powers, possibly even declaring some level of Martial Law (or at least attempt to) in some areas. When local governments won't support him in this, then I worry about the vigilantism from the alt-Right Militias. Of course, if he takes the election the only difference will be that he will skip the first step: instead of delaying certification he'll try to rush it to avoid contest--this will also spark protests and very quickly riots from the violent factions of the radical left, again giving him the door to take Executive control with the same results.

                              Maybe this is a overly cynical view of it all but as you said, Doc, things likely won't improve without first deteriorating further. Revolution is coming; the only question is whether we can approach it with maturity and peace or devolve into childish rage--recent events have led me to believe the latter is more likely. I do think this goes back far beyond the last four years. We have seen a steady decay of our democratic processes and discourse since at least the Reagan era and likely even before that. What we have seen over the last 4 years has been a reaction to and result of troubled groundwork laid in the administrations before it. In some ways, we can look all the way to Ike--not for assignment of fault but for his foresight and warning about the forces which will destroy our Republic.

                              If you want to know what disillusionment looks like; look to me. 😔
                              "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
                              --Thomas a Kempis

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