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U.S. sports protests

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  • Doc
    replied
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...n-trump-409211

    This seems appropriate for this thread. Could LeBron best Trump?

    Leave a comment:


  • Heresiologist
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc View Post
    He’s carried the weight of a billion dollar league on his shoulders for years, and has done it mostly with grace, especially as he had gotten older. and he is still so young, which makes him more impressive to me. He’s very much in the mold of Kareem Abdul-Jabber and Bill Russell, bitch of whom have said they would rather be remembered for their impact on society than their impact on basketball.
    Thanks for the info. Really, thanks for the whole thread as it's taught me some stuff and caused me to go out and learn some more.

    Your mention of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar reminds me that I need to tell my mom to make sure she doesn't garage sale his "Brothers in Arms" book that I got some years ago for my dad. You also dislodged a really vague memory of my dad speaking highly of Bill Russel way back when when such things went way over my head.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post

    Has he lost a significant number of followers, though? It wouldn't surprise me if he's picking up followers and gaining support around the globe. The invalidators will be there, regardless, and whatever faults they condemn one day, they will forgive far worse the next day so long as it's somebody on their side.



    I'm not an NBA (or any sport, really) follower, either. But stuff like this catches my attention (not usually from Reddit though because I mostly look at the AskHistorians subreddit).

    And I just learned earlier today that he spoke out against the death of Trayvon Martin back in 2012. For myself, this guy's gone from just another famous sports person to somebody I'm impressed by.
    He’s carried the weight of a billion dollar league on his shoulders for years, and has done it mostly with grace, especially as he had gotten older. and he is still so young, which makes him more impressive to me. He’s very much in the mold of Kareem Abdul-Jabber and Bill Russell, bitch of whom have said they would rather be remembered for their impact on society than their impact on basketball.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post

    Has he lost a significant number of followers, though? It wouldn't surprise me if he's picking up followers and gaining support around the globe. The invalidators will be there, regardless, and whatever faults they condemn one day, they will forgive far worse the next day so long as it's somebody on their side.



    I'm not an NBA (or any sport, really) follower, either. But stuff like this catches my attention (not usually from Reddit though because I mostly look at the AskHistorians subreddit).

    And I just learned earlier today that he spoke out against the death of Trayvon Martin back in 2012. For myself, this guy's gone from just another famous sports person to somebody I'm impressed by.
    He’s carried the weight of a billion dollar league on his shoulders for years, and has done it mostly with grace, especially as he had gotten older. and he is still so young, which makes him more impressive to me. He’s very much in the mold of Kareem Andul-Jabber and Bill Russell, bitch of whom have said they would rather be remembered for their impact on society than their impact on basketball.

    Leave a comment:


  • Heresiologist
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc View Post

    LeBron can’t win politically. He’s been brave enough to take a stand, and sees it as his responsibility to use the platform he has. He’s not sanctimonious, and he always admits when he is trying to learn. When he has any misstep, people want to invalidate all of his activism ...
    Has he lost a significant number of followers, though? It wouldn't surprise me if he's picking up followers and gaining support around the globe. The invalidators will be there, regardless, and whatever faults they condemn one day, they will forgive far worse the next day so long as it's somebody on their side.

    Originally posted by Thanos Shadowsage View Post
    That may well be the case. As I said, I don't really follow the NBA. Not since the Jordan years actually. I only knew about the Hong Kong comments because it blew up on Reddit.
    I'm not an NBA (or any sport, really) follower, either. But stuff like this catches my attention (not usually from Reddit though because I mostly look at the AskHistorians subreddit).

    And I just learned earlier today that he spoke out against the death of Trayvon Martin back in 2012. For myself, this guy's gone from just another famous sports person to somebody I'm impressed by.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thanos Shadowsage
    replied
    That may well be the case. As I said, I don't really follow the NBA. Not since the Jordan years actually. I only knew about the Hong Kong comments because it blew up on Reddit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Thanos Shadowsage View Post
    LeBron's actions are a bit weird. If I recall correctly he said something supportive about China regarding the Hong Kong protests a few months back. I don't really follow the NBA but I know it made the news when the NBA took an anti-protest stance to Hong Kong.
    LeBron can’t win politically. He’s been brave enough to take a stand, and sees it as his responsibility to use the platform he has. He’s not sanctimonious, and he always admits when he is trying to learn. When he has any misstep, people want to invalidate all of his activism. And he really couldn’t win with Hong Kong. He was expected to say something, but complex political issues can’t always be summarized and advocated in tweets. It turns out nuance matters, but people expected something from him on platforms that allow no nuance. So he was going to be wrong no matter what he did. More reason to stay of off social media, I guess. (Maybe another spin off thread).

    Not accusing you of beating up on him, of course, but your post made me think about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post

    I'd like to know how many of these "shut up and dribble" people also claim to be free speech absolutists? For that matter, how many of the Boycott Dolly people condemn cancel culture?

    Anyway, I'll try to wear my better half's Dolly baseball cap more.

    But returning to the Sports Protest, I was surprised to learn LeBron James and others set up More Than A Vote. Seems like his (and probably the other's) recent actions follow on from that earlier initiative. If anything the latest wave of protest seems to have spurred their efforts further.
    Surely you aren’t accusing some in the right of hypocrisy? 😉 It is interesting that Hannity and Ingraham have no political credentials but they feel really comfortable telling other people to stay out of
    politics, especially entertainers. The irony of Fox News being an entertainment network, rather than news network (by charter) is lost on them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thanos Shadowsage
    replied
    LeBron's actions are a bit weird. If I recall correctly he said something supportive about China regarding the Hong Kong protests a few months back. I don't really follow the NBA but I know it made the news when the NBA took an anti-protest stance to Hong Kong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Heresiologist
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc View Post
    I hope it changes a few minds, or maybe emboldens some quiet people to become more vocal allies. LeBron James has 93 million twitter followers, and I’m certain that many of them want him to “shut up and dribble” like idiot Laura Ingram. But maybe some of them say now is the time to say something.

    I’m also ready to believe that I’m naive. I’m still waiting on the tooth fairy to deliver on that last molar that came out... 😂
    I'd like to know how many of these "shut up and dribble" people also claim to be free speech absolutists? For that matter, how many of the Boycott Dolly people condemn cancel culture?

    Anyway, I'll try to wear my better half's Dolly baseball cap more.

    But returning to the Sports Protest, I was surprised to learn LeBron James and others set up More Than A Vote. Seems like his (and probably the other's) recent actions follow on from that earlier initiative. If anything the latest wave of protest seems to have spurred their efforts further.
    Last edited by Heresiologist; 09-01-2020, 07:36 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thanos Shadowsage
    replied
    Originally posted by EverKing View Post

    Defunding the police, on principle, is actually the opposite of what I think we need. Rather, we need to shift the focus of those funds away from violent interdiction and toward dispersed services.
    That's actually what I understand "Defunding the Police" to mean. Which is part of why I wish we'd use a different term for it nationally. It's too easy for political pundits to conflate defunding to removing police entirely. In reality it's just limiting policing to activities that specifically require the presence of an officer and re-appropriating funding to new organizations that will take the load off the police force for tasks that do not require an officer present. One of the examples from that John Oliver video was Dallas police chasing down stray dogs. That's not an appropriate use of their time and should be handled by animal control.

    If we continue this topic, and I'd like to, perhaps we should split it off into it's own thread for Defunding the Police.

    Leave a comment:


  • EverKing
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc View Post
    ...

    A few bad cops certainly exacerbate systemic inequalities, but blaming cops alone is a distraction in many ways. Yes, the consequences of pervasive inequalities colliding with law enforcement are dramatic, dire, and sometimes fatal (and of course I would never minimize them). but the bigger problem is the pervasive racism and unequal distribution of opportunity that contemporary policing collide with. We always need to remember the broader injustice that is the real driver here.

    excuse my semi-rant. 😂
    Thank you, Doc, for better saying what I was trying to. The system of policing in this country needs dramatic reform in policy and culture but much of the problem has come about as a result of, and reaction to, broader systemic inequities. Mass incarceration, on-going fallout from the "broken window" theory, and generations of abuse have all piled on to create the current environment. The War of Drugs and mandatory minimum sentences alone are responsible for a lion's share but even course correction in that arena would go only so far. I am in full support of a return to community policing with individual officers, as known members of a community, permitted some latitude in enforcement decisions. Certainly de-militarizing the police will help. Adding additional public services for mental health and intervention, decriminalizing addiction (with focus civil treatment instead of criminal prosecution), and so on. Defunding the police, on principle, is actually the opposite of what I think we need. Rather, we need to shift the focus of those funds away from violent interdiction and toward dispersed services.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Navigator View Post
    Being entrenched in the South, I hear so much negativity from those around me. I am a fairly left leaning citizen, yet I am fascinated by other peoples views. I let people talk and people feel comfortable expressing all sorts of things to me. I will not argue with people whose knowledge is based on facebook posts and YouTube conspiracies, however I am very outspoken when it comes to outright bigoted assholes.

    I have seen people turn against Nascar and sports teams that take a social stance. I live in East TN. Dolly Parton is pretty much a folk hero in these parts. When she recently made a statement supporting awareness of violence against African Americans I heard people who always spoke highly of her immediately turn against her. It is disheartening to say the least. There is so much denial. It doesn’t matter who takes a stand to some people. They will never question their own views. Anyone who doesn’t agree is seen as the enemy. People see it as their own heroes are turning against them. Some people do not have the capacity to reevaluate and make changes within themselves.
    I’m pretty left in the south, too. In my 10 or so years here, I’ve not been able to become numb to the entrenchment is certain nonsensical views, and people’s capacity to turn on people who challenge them. When Nick Saban (maybe the most admired person in Alabama) recently expressed support for Black Lives Matter, some people turned on him. And his support was really a murmur, not a scream, simply supporting the players who people supposedly also admire and support. When racism is more important than Crimson Tide football, we know something is rotting. Shoot the messenger who exposes the stench so you don’t have to confront your own rot...





    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Thanos Shadowsage View Post

    I fully support the idea of "defunding" the police in favor of creating other organizations to handle non-violent emergencies and law enforcement. In most cases a highway patrolman is not going to need a firearm. A lot of what the police get called in for don't require the threat of lethal force.
    We often expect local police to be counselors, social
    workers, and teachers. Let’s take the money funding the police’s military grade assault equipment and pay more counselors, social workers, and teachers who are trained to do those jobs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by EverKing View Post

    (Full disclosure here: I was raised in a Law Enforcement family and have been surrounded by it at the highest levels most of my life; not just working cops but LEOs responsible for policy, standards, and training. I understand this brings a totally different perspective and even some bias to my view of the larger situation but it is a bias of consideration tempered by fact rather than one of emotional reaction--for example, I refuse to pass personal judgement on a situation until the facts are known and investigations complete.).
    I work with local law enforcement fairly regularly and have taught several dozen people involved in law enforcement at all levels. Most people go into law enforcement do it for all of the right reasons. Some of the finest humans I know are career cops.

    There are more than a few bad apples, as well. I don’t want to minimize them, but the bigger problems are systemic. There are problematic issues in the entire justice system, in law enforcement, and policing that perpetuate systemic injustice, and are intertwined with broader inequalities. Blaming cops is easy. Granted, the “bad apples” are often enabled and rewarded by the malignancy in some systems. But we can be critical of the systemic issue without simply blaming cops, and without oversimplifying the issue as the problem of a few bad cops (who should always be called out).

    A few bad cops certainly exacerbate systemic inequalities, but blaming cops alone is a distraction in many ways. Yes, the consequences of pervasive inequalities colliding with law enforcement are dramatic, dire, and sometimes fatal (and of course I would never minimize them). but the bigger problem is the pervasive racism and unequal distribution of opportunity that contemporary policing collide with. We always need to remember the broader injustice that is the real driver here.

    excuse my semi-rant. 😂

    Leave a comment:

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