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Kamala Harris as VP candidate

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  • Kamala Harris as VP candidate

    Thoughts? I think she’s a pretty good candidate. She knows how the machine works, so she can do the job, and I don’t think she will cost Biden any votes. She may help create a little more enthusiasm for his candidacy.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Doc View Post
    Thoughts? I think she’s a pretty good candidate. She knows how the machine works, so she can do the job, and I don’t think she will cost Biden any votes. She may help create a little more enthusiasm for his candidacy.
    I have to be honest I did not know her, but after briefly reading about her on Wikipedia, she looks even better prepared to be president than Biden of Hillary ( who it has been impossible to like I admit, no Herisiologist, I am not trying to provoke you, I just never liked her ). She will be able to bring conservatives to vote for the Democrats, at least the part that dislikes Trump because she is an experienced attorney with a large history of tough crime-fighting.
    "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
    "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

    Comment


    • #3
      Z- Hilary Clinton was an historically unlikable candidate, even to some of her most ardent supporters. While some of the roots of this were manufactured or based on irrelevant factors (and obvious sexism), she did herself no favors in making herself a better candidate.

      I think the biggest boosts Harris provides are Silicon Valley money, blunting Trump’s claims that Biden will create a lawless society, and giving much of the party’s base a reason to believe real change could happen.

      I think the criticisms of her as “too ambitious” are ridiculously sexist, and actually sound like some of the criticism of H. Clinton. Too much ambition in a man is rarely framed as problematic.

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      • #4
        From a strategic point of view I think she's probably a good choice for Biden. It was, as far as I can tell, a foregone conclusion that he would pick a female running mate and of the available Democrat options she seems the strongest candidate. At the very least she shows little sign of hurting the ticket and she may provide a slight boost for those worried about Biden's age and mental faculty (seemingly unfounded concerns generated by the opposition).

        All that being said, I cannot say whether it will have any major impact on the course of the election. This is all going to boil down to those want to vote Trump and those who want to vote against him. I think, given the current political climate, the DNC could nominate a Poodle with a rock VP and they would gain as many votes as a Biden/Harris ticket (OK, OK, that may be hyperbole but only just).

        It seems to me that as long as the US government remains under the sway of the current two-party system our options each cycle will continue to degrade. In my time as a voting adult there has not been a single POTUS candidate from either party that actually looked attractive to me at the time they were running. Those who, as individuals, seemed decent were then completely undermined by Party Platforming and competition during the Primary cycles. But, this is another issue all-together.
        "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
        --Thomas a Kempis

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        • #5
          Not being from the USA and so not greatly informed or invested, my thought was that almost all candidates for the post were likely than Biden himself, so a win whatever!

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          • #6
            EverKing I’m writing in the Poodle and Rock ticket on my ballot!

            Seriously, though, I agree that the election is a referendum on Trump. I also agree that the two party system is increasingly giving us the choice to vote for the lesser of two evils. At least in the case of Trump, I feel like I am certainly voting against evil. Literally.

            Just as importantly, I agree that no candidates are ever going to be candidates that reflect my ideal choices for governing. That is problematic enough. More problematic is that governance seems to be less important than just winning elections to hold some version of power and entrench ideologies. Party is becoming way too important. But maybe we’re getting the candidates we deserve...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Rothgo View Post
              Not being from the USA and so not greatly informed or invested, my thought was that almost all candidates for the post were likely than Biden himself, so a win whatever!
              He certainly isn’t the most compelling candidate, and I agree that most of his potential choices for VP were. He’s slightly better than EverKing’s poodle. 😉

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Doc View Post
                EverKing I’m writing in the Poodle and Rock ticket on my ballot!
                Har! Happy to inspire you!
                Originally posted by Doc View Post
                Seriously, though, I agree that the election is a referendum on Trump. I also agree that the two party system is increasingly giving us the choice to vote for the lesser of two evils. At least in the case of Trump, I feel like I am certainly voting against evil. Literally.
                Indeed. Even as a rural American, I cannot understand what it is about him that people want to support. While I can understand the distaste for the DNC platform that alone is not enough to make Trump appear attractive in any way. The man is...well, human in fact but apparently not in practice.
                Originally posted by Doc View Post
                Just as importantly, I agree that no candidates are ever going to be candidates that reflect my ideal choices for governing. That is problematic enough. More problematic is that governance seems to be less important than just winning elections to hold some version of power and entrench ideologies. Party is becoming way too important. But maybe we’re getting the candidates we deserve...
                I have serious issue with the Two Party system and even talked some about small solutions to help reduce the power of the Big Two but it seems no one wants to consider it. Whether from indoctrination (one way or the other), ignorance (willful or otherwise), or indifference it seems that many people have bought into the rhetoric and poorly applied partisan theory which enables--even encourages--further entrenchment of the Two Party System. One of the most surprising arguments, in my opinion, is actually provided by those educated in political theory and history; that of the idea of the necessity of Parties to produce a quorum in the Government. This argument really only stands in Parliamentary systems where the Party/Faction creates a government of their control and selects their own Head of Government. In the US Constitutional system the Head of Government, as Chief Executive, is held separate from the factions of Legislature and should also, therefore, be independent of said factions--although the Constitution makes no explicit prohibition of Executive partisanship. Ultimately, the way the system exists now only encourages the factions to look after their own interests and further entrench their power through manipulation of the electoral processes.

                "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
                --Thomas a Kempis

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                • #9
                  I think Biden is clever to make his right hand the person who gutted him and left him bleeding out on the debating stage floor, while Harris is making the right move since the guy she shanked managed to rise, completely bloodless, and walk to victory. Maybe she reckons the dead man only needs to walk so far. It would be awesome if the dead man harbours the same thought.

                  More seriously (but not much more so), Kamala Harris is clearly much more than the human news blip HRC chose.

                  A scarier thought is the notion that, like 2016's election was HRC's to lose, it's looking like 2020 is Biden's to lose.

                  Originally posted by EverKing View Post
                  ... I have serious issue with the Two Party system and even talked some about small solutions to help reduce the power of the Big Two but it seems no one wants to consider it ...
                  Everking, I'm fairly happy to live in a country that effectively has 3 federal level parties to choose from. It's complicated, though. Only two of those parties have ever formed the government. My "third" party is me lumping two lesser parties together because it's incredibly unlikely either of them will win. They do play a non-trivial role, however, and people vote for them and don't have to feel they've thrown their vote away. Personally, I believe Canada is way too big and diverse for any one party to do much more than pretend they represent the general good while serving a much smaller constituency.

                  As for parliamentary deadlock, yes, it can happen but we're not there yet. Additionally, some of our most enduring, and nation defining, legislation has come from so called minority governments which, since they don't have the numbers to simply impose their agenda, have to sit down at the table with others and hammer out a consensus. Among other things, it's thought the resulting legislation is robust because the politicians who came up with it represent a much wider proportion of the population. For myself, it also sounds like the very definition of a politician's job and much closer to the notion of democracy in action. The "I got 40% of the popular vote, which represents maybe 60% of the eligible electorate, therefore I've got a mandate and am now CEO of the country" bullshit has got to go.

                  But small steps. I'm glad you're working to get rid of that lawless lawman.

                  P.S. Later note: I totally forget about coalition governments.
                  Last edited by Heresiologist; 08-12-2020, 03:33 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am not sure if I dislike the two-party thing because in Brazil we have the N party-thing and growing every day. But we are not an example of course.
                    "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                    "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post

                      A scarier thought is the notion that, like 2016's election was HRC's to lose, it's looking like 2020 is Biden's to lose.
                      No kidding. As someone who is unquestionably anti-Trump (because I am a real human), one of my greatest fears is apathy or complacency around November.


                      Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post
                      As for parliamentary deadlock, yes, it can happen but we're not there yet. Additionally, some of our most enduring, and nation defining, legislation has come from so called minority governments which, since they don't have the numbers to simply impose their agenda, have to sit down at the table with others and hammer out a consensus. Among other things, it's thought the resulting legislation is robust because the politicians who came up with it represent a much wider proportion of the population. For myself, it also sounds like the very definition of a politician's job and much closer to the notion of democracy in action. The "I got 40% of the popular vote, which represents maybe 60% of the eligible electorate, therefore I've got a mandate and am now CEO of the country" bullshit has got to go.

                      But small steps. I'm glad you're working to get rid of that lawless lawman.


                      P.S. Later note: I totally forget about coalition governments.
                      And parliamentary government has never deadlocked like congressional gridlock. The "governing" model really seems to be based on acknowledging that there are only two deeply entrenched sides, so let's posture and make the courts govern by default. Control of the Senate seems much more about picking judges than passing legislation.

                      And we supposedly have coalitions, but they all are represented by parties, so their interests always get subsumed by parties. What to rural evangelicals have in common with Wall Street financiers? That is a stupid (and enduring) coalition, resting under one banner...

                      And a prime minister (with all apologies to Madison and Jefferson) usually seems to make more sense for democracy than a president.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
                        I am not sure if I dislike the two-party thing because in Brazil we have the N party-thing and growing every day. But we are not an example of course.
                        I read an article on Bolsonaro the other day. I knew he was scary, but I didn't realize how scary.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Doc View Post

                          I read an article on Bolsonaro the other day. I knew he was scary, but I didn't realize how scary.
                          LOL, when I meant N I mean as a variable, not the N evil thing. To be frankly honest, I voted for him. Long story. The alternative would have been voting for Lula and PT, which is a largely corrupt party, although they pose as altruistic saviors. I am what they call here a middle-class typical guy, and we are around 50 million or more.

                          PT just said: the middle class is the bourgeoise, we hate them. Let's end them.
                          Let's just throw the poorest against them, let us call them rich.

                          So PT changed the definition of middle-class, thus we have become the rich elite so our voices should not be heard. Ok, things were just the same.
                          For a while, the economy stayed in place because there was still money in the jar from bribing and public money. Lula traveled the world, PT leaders became all rich.
                          Criminality just went to an unbearable level at the same time we have seen large scandals of corruption. Industries and companies went bankrupt.
                          PT elects Dilma, and if we tell that she is incompetent, we are "ists": elitist, racists, misogynists, sexists, and,homophobes.
                          We are the devious white man elite although I have African ancestry from my grandfather's part.

                          I went to college. I have a degree from a good university. My parents are retired, college teachers. They are as evil as I, PT says. It does not matter that my grandparents were not college teachers and had to work hard to have my parents to study.

                          Lula, stays as the sacred cow, he waves his arms and water pours over the desert. So says PT. In truth, he had been receiving bribery and being well acquainted with bank owners.
                          And we are still here, middle-class evil monsters, losing our jobs, and being accused of all kinds of villainy.

                          Dilma was, thank God, impeached in 2016 but not before we spent billions with a world cup and an Olympics game.

                          PT is enamored of Cuba and Venezuela. They plan to make Brazil a similar "paradise".

                          So, there is this guy, who says what he thinks and proposes a rupture. He is apparently honest. I am extremely fed up with the left, and the very thought of socialism. I start following a friend who is a conservative and at first all things he says seem extremely logical. But I keep my socialist heart intact.

                          The multiverse is shut down. I join an Orson Scott Card forum and I meet a group of liberals and it does not matter what you say if you don't agree, you are the devious white rich guy.
                          Trump is elected, and I was extremely scared because he is crazy, but these liberal people start doing all sorts of violence against who voted for Trump. They are extremely angry.

                          Ok, a few months later, we start getting information that the US is doing fine but all we see on TV is the Trump vilifying.

                          Hey, there is his new guy called Bolsonaro, he seems nice although he seems homophobe. Ok, at least he is honest. PT hates him.

                          So I am blindfolded by fear and start seeing that Bolsonaro is not a homophobe, he is a nice guy. He is the only hope.

                          Thus, I lost friends, family members stopped talking to me. My brother's wife stops talking to me. Lula is put in jail.

                          Well, time is relentless. All are in ruins, shattered by a bad government, coronavirus and as Herisiologist says, more of the same old shit running Brazil over the centuries just with different flavors.

                          I would not call Bolsonaro a nazi. He is crazy, however. Not completely as honest as he said.

                          We are back siking slowly.

                          Could you forgive me? Well, I forgave myself for having been a PT support for years and I certainly forgave everybody still supporting Lula and saying he is honest like shit. I don't buy that.




                          "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                          "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know a number of Brazilians.

                            One runs a successful business and has a PHD in economics. I think he's much more qualified than Daniel to speak on economic matters and, suffice to say, he really disagrees with Daniel's views. I wish there was a smiley face that could convey the merest iota of the look he once gave me in response to me repeating one of Daniel's claims. The responses to Daniel's views, from the others, only get worse from there.

                            Suffice to say, I think I've done more than due diligence on following up on Daniel's claims and my conclusion is 5, maybe 10, minutes on Google will provide you with credible sources presenting more realistic, less rabidly partisan, views.

                            And, no, Daniel, you can't smear these people or sources as "left." Excepting that none of them are in, or near, the fascist curious camp, they're all over the map.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Now that we came to judge qualifications let me say, I know many successful Brazilians, go figure that a rather illiterate nearly neanderthal guy like me has such fine acquaintances, but like Jack The Ripper and we are going in parts.

                              1. Friend number one: he runs a hair Saloom with his wife. He said that initially, Lula had been good for the economy. But, after Lula's wonderful 8 years, he had to fire all his employees and they now work by themselves there but pay a percentage of their profits. He had to sell cars and properties.
                              2. Friend number two: he has a degree in electrical engineering by USP ( the same place where this neanderthal guy here has studied ) and master of business in another institute. He was the main project manager of Delphi and was fired and spent 2 years unemployed and survived because he had a small business, which after the beloved government Dilma went bankrupt.
                              3. Friend number three: Also a successful owner of a small business that produces audio equipment since 2003 and he has been adamantly critical of the PT administrations.
                              4. Friend number four: He was in the automotive business and has a master's degree in production engineering and used to be the planet manager of the industry. He got fired and now runs the Brazilian biggest installation of production of electronic boards and goods.
                              5. Friend number five: He is a bank manager of a national bank.

                              I could go on of course but maybe you got the point. They all agree that PT administration has been disastrous. I can offer my experience as a neanderthal, or better saying an illiterate software engineer who has been working in the field for around 20 years and admits not to be exceptionally brilliant. Brazil has experienced a great boom in the field in the 90s and early 00s but due to the constant economical programs created by PT the field is extremely damaged.

                              many software industries closed doors
                              many have decreased business activities

                              The average decrease in salaries is about 50%. So, today, a senior C++ programmer is offered around half what he would make back in the early 00s before the PT administration making to the power. The number of companies that closed doors is huge, as we say, lots of business closed but the "aluga-se" franchise has increased its activities.

                              I can also tell you my personal experience as a worker, who pay taxes and have two kids that I struggled during PT times even more as before or after and much of the good things we experienced came from the previous governments which are social democrats although extremely corrupt but not as large as PT.

                              I did more than I should as well because I think I experienced the PT years and unlike your friend, I did not leave Brazil although I had opportunities to leave. I still have not seen your friend resume, but the only businessmen still supporting PT have been the ones that were part of the scheme ( yes you are going to accuse me of doing a nasty accusation against your dear friend but read next please ) or the ones that live in another country or planet. If you run a research on the internet as suggested by H, you will find many sources debunking me but all of them are allied to PT.

                              That said, I still don't understand your huge bias towards me as I said yes "Bolsonaro" is not a good option, not a good president, but PT is a far worse evil. The only people that defend PT are PT supporters who are fanatics who abhor debating and base their arguments in their love. You now constantly use the experience to disregard one's opinions but in regard to PT, they are all facts. It is ok if you want to be left, I see no trouble at all at this but PT is corrupt and I would never stay close to endorsee convicted criminals not even if their claims are to foment a revolution. And you are just like doing that, You sacrifice friendships, you disregard opinions.
                              "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                              "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

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