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Israel/Lebanon Conflict (Split from 'Cyprus, Refugees...'

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  • #76
    If Israel turned its whole country over to extremists and walked away would the problem subside? Or would radical military groups view it as a sign of weakness and move on to other conquests? If there is no resistance offered whatsoever, where will it lead?


    • #77
      I understood the metaphor, and replied on the same lines. I agree 100% that no non military man,woman or child should be harmed during military conflicts. Its a shame that soldiers are subjected to such dangers and I have the utmost respect for their bravery.


      • #78
        Legitimate resistance and war crimes are two different things.

        If Israel accepted a return to the 1967 frontier ( with some minor corrections ) his attitude would be morally irreproachable ( ? ) and his right to defend itself undeniable.

        The conditions of peace have ben talked about in the other topic .......

        Beyond the moral question, the present killings are politically counterproductive.


        • #79
          I agree that if Israel returns to the '67 lines then it would strengthen its moral position. However, I don't believe that because Israel occupies the West Bank it should be reproached for acting in Lebanon or Gaza, where it's already withdrewn to the internationally recognised lines.

          Sadly, people in Israel see that from both places Israel left (Gaza and south Lebanon) rockets are being fired. This makes some of them believe (erroneously) that the withdrawals from these two places were a mistake. It makes them think that even if Israel withdraws to the '67 lines, rockets will still keep coming, hitting the heart of Israel from the new improved positions that were handed to the "enemy", and then what? I can understand their fears and hesitations. And I think that international forces (but ones with power, not weak as UNIFIL was) should be involved in these kind of solutions to reassure both sides.
          Last edited by Oren; 07-26-2006, 02:21 PM.


          • #80
            Originally posted by voilodian ghagnasdiak
            If Israel turned its whole country over to extremists and walked away would the problem subside? Or would radical military groups view it as a sign of weakness and move on to other conquests? If there is no resistance offered whatsoever, where will it lead?
            I've recently read that some Muslim extremists announced that once they are done with Israel their next goal would be to reclaim Andalusia...


            • #81
              But a majority of palestinians living in Palestine seems agreeing to the idea of a just peace and Hamas had to make openings in this direction to escape a referendum on this point and others !


              • #82
                Originally posted by Morgan Kane
                But a majority of palestinians living in Palestine seems agreeing to the idea of a just peace and Hamas had to make openings in this direction to escape a referendum on this point and others !
                Hamas' charter calls to the complete eradication of Israel and Jewry. Not only that, but it debases Jews in a way that wouldn't shame Mein Kampf or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a popular book nowadays in the Islamic world). Note that they call for a war against Jews, not against Israelis. That hasn't changed. Hamas is a fascist terror movement, period.

                Some "pearls" from the Hamas charter:

                Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.
                The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
                "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
                For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.
                You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.
                Yes, according to Hamas Jews were behind both world wars. And this is the movement Palestinians have chosen to lead them. What a pity.


                • #83
                  Originally posted by voilodian ghagnasdiak
                  What would Churchill have done if England had been under a similar attack as the one currently staged by Hezbollah??
                  Let's not compare Hezbollah to the Nazis. If you want a more realistic comparison, let's compare Hezbollah to the IRA, shall we? Now I don't know about you, but I don't recall the British Army bombing the hell out of, say, Dublin (on the theoretical pretext that the IRA *might* have had links with the Irish Government).

                  And the British Government hasn't exactly come out smelling of rose after events like 'Bloody Sunday' either, when the British Army did open fire upon Irish civilians.
                  _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                  _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                  _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                  _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."


                  • #84
                    I can't recall the IRA incessantly firing missiles over major English towns.


                    • #85
                      Dave M. Wrote
                      Let's not compare Hezbollah to the Nazis.
                      Mikey C. Wrote
                      *Do Hezbollah's stiff-armed salutes look familiar?

                      Sorry Dave but I didnt make the comparison, Im simply acknowledging it. I am not pro or anti semitic by any means. Im about as neutral as you can get aside from my opinions. The IRA did not impose continuous missile strikes on England steadily for a three week period by my recollection. My reference to Winston C. was simply that he would not by any means have tolerated such a threat if it was imposed upon England.


                      • #86
                        A recollection from Canadian soldier Major Hess-von Kruedener (deceased) stationed in UN Patrol Base Khiam.
                        What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.

                        Another tragic tale of bravery.


                        • #87
                          Sorry but the arm gestures just trivialises the central issue imo. Hezbollah may desire the extermination of Israel and the Jews, but unlike the Nazi machine it has nowhere near the means to do so. The actions of Hezbollah are repellant regardless of what salute they use.

                          But, in the interests of making cheap satrical shots, consider:

                          Picture of US children taking the Pledge of Allegience | (I've no idea what GWB thinks he's doing.)
                          using the 'Bellamy salute', used in America between
                          1892 and 1942.

                          Originally posted by voilodian ghagnasdiak
                          The IRA did not impose continuous missile strikes on England steadily for a three week period by my recollection.
                          No, they just conducted a continuous series of terrorist attacks (with various peaks and troughs) over a 30-year period, both in Ulster and mainland Britain:

                          * 1970: IRA men use firearms to defend Clonard monastery in west Belfast, the Short Strand in east Belfast and other nationalist areas from attack by loyalist mobs. Several people killed in gun battles.
                          * July, 1970: Official IRA and Provisional IRA fight three day gun battle with 3000 British troops imposing a curfew on the Lower Falls area of Belfast, over 1,500 rounds fired by British troops.
                          * 26 June 1970: Three IRA members and two young girls killed when a bomb being assembled explodes accidentally in the Creggan, Derry.
                          * February 6, 1971: British soldier on security duties, Gunner Robert Curtis, killed by the IRA in gun battle in North Belfast. One IRA man abnd one Catholic civilian also killed in shooting.
                          * February 1971, Three off duty British soldiers abducted and shot and killed by IRA, it denies responsibility.
                          * 9 August 1971, Internment introduced. Around 350 republican suspects detained. 17 people are killed in gun battles in the next two days between IRA and British Army. Between 1971 and 1975, 1,981 people were detained; 1,874 were Catholic / Republican, while 107 were Protestant / Loyalist.
                          * 23 October 1971:Two female members of the Irish Republican Army (IRA), Maura Meehan (30) and Dorothy Maguire (19), were shot and killed by the British Army (BA) in the Lower Falls area of Belfast
                          * 11 December 1971: IRA killed four Protestant civilians in a bomb attack on a furniture shop on the Shankill Road in Belfast. Two of those who were killed in the explosion were children
                          * 4 December 1971: The McGurk's Bar bombing kills 15 people. Although the IRA are initially blamed, it later emerges that the Ulster Volunteer Force is responsible.
                          * 1972:Bloodiest year of PIRA campaign, over 100 British soldiers killed, 500 shooting attacks and 1,300 bombing attacks. 94 IRA members die in this year.
                          * January 1972: Bloody Sunday Unrest in Derry culminates in action by British Paratroopers. The shooting by the soldiers resulted in the deaths of thirteen unarmed protestors. The resulting outrage gains the PIRA support from much more of the nationalist community than it previously enjoyed.
                          * 4 March 1972:The Abercorn Restaurant in Belfast was bombed without warning. Two Catholic civilians were killed and over 130 people injured. The Irish Republican Army (IRA) did not claim responsibility for the bomb but were universally considered to have been involved
                          * December, 1972: Mother of ten, Jean McConville, is abducted and killed by the Provisional IRA, allegedly for informing the British Army of IRA activities, although her family contend that she was killed for comforting a wounded British soldier. The IRA would deny any involvement in the killing until the 1990s, when it would acknowledge its action and attempt to locate the body. [Northern Ireland]
                          * 11 June 1972:There was a gun battle between Loyalist and Republican paramilitaries in the Oldpark area of Belfast. There were shooting incidents in other areas of Belfast and Northern Ireland. In all, two Catholics, a Protestant, and a British soldier were shot and killed.
                          * 24 June 1972:The IRA killed three British Army soldiers in a land mine attack near Dungiven, County Londonderry.
                          * 26 June-8 July 1972, IRA ceasefire and talks with British government
                          * 14 July 1972:Six people were shot and killed in separate gun battles between IRA and British Army in Belfast. Three were British Army soldiers, two were members of the IRA and one was a Protestant civilian.
                          * 21 July 1972: On "Bloody Friday" 22 bombs kill nine and seriously injure 130. 30 years later the IRA would officially apologise for this set of attacks. [Northern Ireland]
                          * December, 1972: Mother of ten, Jean McConville, is abducted and killed by the Provisional IRA, allegedly for informing the British Army of IRA activities, although her family contend that she was killed for comforting a wounded British soldier. The IRA would deny any involvement in the killing until the 1990s, when it would acknowledge its action and attempt to locate the body. [Northern Ireland]
                          * 31 July 1972: Three car bomb explode in the Claudy bombings, in which nine people are killed on Claudy High Street near Londonderry. The IRA have always denied involvement, but neutral observers believe they were responsible.
                          * 31 July 1972 Operation Motorman, British Army uses 12,000 troops to take IRA held "no go areas" in Belfast and Derry.
                          * 22 August 1972:A bomb that was being planted by the IRA exploded prematurely at a customs post at Newry, County Down. Nine people, including three members of the IRA and five Catholic civilians, were killed in the explosion.
                          * 8 March 1973: IRA exploded two car bombs in London and killed one person and injured over 200 people.
                          * 4 February 1974: M62 Coach Bombing: A bomb planted on a coach carrying British Army personnel and their wives and families explodes as it is travelling along the M62 motorway at Birkenshaw. Twelve people are killed; nine soldiers and the wife and two young sons of one of them. [England]
                          * 17 May 1973:The Irish Republican Army (IRA) carried out a booby-trap bomb attack on five members of the British Army who were off duty at the time. The attack occurred in Omagh, County Tyrone. [Four soldiers were killed on the day and the fifth soldier died on 3 June 1973.]
                          * 31 October 1973 IRA use a hijacked helicopter to free three of their members from the exercise yard of Mountjoy Prison, Dublin. On of those who escaped was Seamus Twomey, then Chief of Staff of the IRA. [Twomey was recaptured in December 1977.]
                          * October 5, 1974: The Guildford pub bombing kills five and injures 182. The motive for the bombing was that the pub attacked was frequented by off-duty, unarmed soldiers. Four people, dubbed the "Guildford Four", would be convicted for the bombing and imprisoned for life. Fifteen years later Lord Lane of the Court of Appeal would overturn their convictions noting "the investigating officers must have lied". Some had spent the entire fifteen years in prison, years after the IRA men who carried out the attacks admitted them to British police. No police officer was ever charged. [England]
                          * November 7, 1974: Two people are killed when a nail bomb containing 6lb of gelignite is thrown through the window of the Kings Head pub in Woolwich
                          * November 21, 1974: In the Birmingham Pub Bombings bombs in two pubs kill 19. The "Birmingham Six" would be tried for this and convicted. Many years later, after new evidence of police fabrication and suppression of evidence, their convictions would be quashed and they would be released. [England]
                          * 1974: In December a bomb explodes on the first floor of Harrods department store in Knightsbridge. Part of the store is gutted but there are no injuries. [England]
                          * 22 December 1974 Irish Republican Army leadership declare a temporary ceasefire, pending talks with British government officials,
                          * 21 January 1975: There was a series of bomb explosions in Belfast in attacks carried out by the IRA. Two members of the IRA were killed when a bomb they were transporting by car exploded in Victoria Street, Belfast.
                          * 10 February 1975:The Irish Republican Army leadership declare a Truce. The ceasefire was to last officially until 23 January 1976, however it was not respected by all IRA units and violence continues throughout the year.
                          * February 27, 1975: Off-duty police officer Stephen Tibble is shot and killed[1] as he joins in the chase of a suspect on his motorbike in Barons Court, London. The suspect had been spotted by a detective coming out of a house which was later discovered to be an IRA bomb factory.
                          * 17 July 1975:The IRA killed four British soldiers in a remote controlled bomb attack near Forkhill, County Armagh
                          * 13 August 1975: The IRA carried out a bomb and gun attack on the Bayardo Bar, Shankill Road, Belfast killing five people and injuring 40 others. One of those killed was a member of the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) the other four were Protestant civilians
                          * 1 September 1975:Five Protestant civilians died and seven were injured as a result of an attack on an Orange Hall in Newtownhamilton, County Armagh. Responsibility for the attack was claimed by a group called the South Armagh Republican Action force (SARAF) which was considered by many commentators to be a covername for members of the IRA.
                          * 3 November 1975: Several people were injured by a car bomb planted by the Provisional IRA in Connaught Square, London W2.
                          * 29 October 1975:The Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) shot and killed Robert Elliman (27), then a member of the Official IRA (OIRA), in McKenna's Bar in the Markets area of Belfast. [Between 29 October 1975 and 12 November 1975, 11 people were to died in the continuing feud between the two wings of the IRA. Most of those killed were members of the 'official' republican movement.]
                          * November 27, 1975: The killing[2] of businessman and TV personality Ross McWhirter, who with his brother Norris McWhirter, had offered reward money to anyone who would inform on the IRA.
                          * December 7–12, 1975: The Balcombe Street Siege.
                          * August 1975: Caterham pub bombing.
                          * January 5, 1976: IRA kills ten Protestant workers in the Kingsmill massacre, county Armagh in retaliation for loyalist killings of Catholics.
                          * 23 January 1976, IRA ceasefire officially called off.
                          * 1 March 1976:End of Special Category Status Prisoners.Merlyn Rees, then Secretary of Sate for Northern Ireland, announced that those people convicted of causing terrorist offences would no longer be entitled to special category status. In other words they were to be treated as ordinary criminals
                          * July 21, 1976: An IRA landmine kills Christopher Ewart-Biggs, the newly appointed British ambassador to the Republic of Ireland, resulting in the declaration of a State of Emergency in the Republic. His secretary, Judith Cook (25), was also killed in the explosion
                          * The IRA also threatens to kidnap or kill Irish cabinet ministers and the President of Ireland.
                          * 14 September 1976:Blanket protest Begun by IRA prisoners (starting with Kiaran Nugent) protesting at the loss of political status.
                          * 2 February 1977:Jeffrey Agate (59), then Managing Director of the American Du Pont factory in Derry was shot and killed by members of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) outside his home at Talbot Park, Derry. [This killing marked the beginning of a series of attacks on businessmen. There were further killings on 2 March 1977 and 14 March 1977.]
                          * 2 June 1977:Three members of an Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) mobile patrol were shot and killed by Irish Republican Army (IRA) snipers near Ardboe, County Tyrone. Part of ongoing attacks on Police and Army.
                          * 17 February 1978: La Mon Restaurant Bombing-Twelve people, all Protestant civilians, were killed and 23 badly injured when an IRA incendiary bomb exploded at the restaurant of the La Mon House Hotel, Gransha, near Belfast
                          * 20 June 1978: Three members of the IRA and a passing Protestant civilian were shot and killed by undercover members of the British Army during an attempted bomb attack on a Post Office depot, Ballysillan Road, Belfast
                          * 14 November 1978:The Irish Republican Army (IRA) carried out a number of bomb attacks in towns across Northern Ireland. Serious damage was caused in attacks in Armagh, Belfast, Castlederg, Cookstown, Derry and Enniskillen. Thirty-seven people were injured in the attacks. [This series of bomb attacks represented a renewed bombing campaign and over 50 bombs were exploded in the following week.]
                          * 5 January 1979:Two members of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) were killed in a car in Ardoyne, Belfast, when the bomb they were transporting exploded prematurely
                          * 4 February 1979:Patrick MacKin (60), a former Prison Officer, and his wife Violet (58), were both shot and killed by the Irish Republican Army at their home in Oldpark Road, Belfast. Part of an escalating campaign against prison officers, co-inciding with the Dirty protest and Blanket protest in the Maze prison.
                          * 22 March 1979:Members of the IRA killed Richard Sykes (58), then British Ambassador to the Netherlands, and also his Dutch valet Krel Straub (19), in a gun attack in Den Haag, Netherlands. The IRA carried out a series of attacks across Northern Ireland with 24 bombs exploding on same day.
                          * 17 April 1979:Four Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) officers were killed when the Irish Republican Army (IRA) exploded an estimated 1,000 pound van bomb at Bessbrook, County Armagh. [This was believed to be the largest bomb used by the IRA to this date.]
                          * 2 August 1979:Two British soldiers were killed by the Irish Republican Army (IRA) in a landmine attack at Cathedral Road, Armagh. [These deaths brought the total number of British Army soldiers killed in Northern Ireland since 1969 to 301.]
                          * August 27, 1979: An IRA bomb kills Earl Mountbatten of Burma, the British Queen's first cousin, members of his family and a local child off the Irish coast. On the same day the IRA kill 18 British soldiers at Narrow Water, near Newry, County Down; in an attack described by the British government as "a classic guerrilla attack", they first plant one bomb, which kills six, and then begin firing with sniper rifles at soldiers, driving them to cover at a nearby gate where a second bomb explodes, killing 12 others. During an Irish visit, Pope John Paul II calls for the IRA campaign of violence to come to an end. The IRA rejected his advice and declared that it had widespread support and that Britain would only withdraw from Northern Ireland if forced to do so: "force is by far the only means of removing the evil of the British presence in Ireland ... we know also that upon victory the Church would have no difficulty in recognising us".
                          * 16 December 1979:Four British soldiers were killed by a landmine bomb planted by the Irish Republican Army (IRA) at Ballygawley Road, near Dungannon, County Tyrone. Another soldier was killed by a booby-trap bomb at Forkhill, County Armagh. James Fowler, a former member of the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR), was shot and killed by the IRA in Omagh, County Tyrone.
                          * 1981: IRA prisoner Bobby Sands, imprisoned in connection with his involvement in an attack involving a bomb and subsequent gun battle, is elected Member of Parliament at Westminster for the Northern Ireland constituency of Fermanagh and South Tyrone in a by-election. The moderate nationalist Social Democratic and Labour Party decides not to run a candidate (which would have split the nationalist vote), in protest of the British government's handling of the protest. This left Sands as the main nationalist candidate. Sands had been on a hunger strike for "Prisoner of War" or Special Category Status for 41 days prior to being elected. He died 23 days later. It was estimated that 100,000 people attended his funeral. IRA prisoners were ultimately de facto awarded political status by Margaret Thatcher's government, after nine more deaths by hunger strike. [Northern Ireland]
                          * 1981: The PIRA kill Ulster Unionist Party Belfast MP Rev Robert Bradford along with the caretaker of a community centre. Irish Taoiseach Dr Garret FitzGerald and former taoiseach and opposition leader Charles Haughey condemn the killings in Dáil Éireann. SDLP party leader John Hume accuses the Provisionals of waging a campaign of "sectarian genocide". [Northern Ireland]
                          * 10 October 1981: a bomb blast on Ebury Bridge Road in London kills two people and injures 39. [England]
                          * 26 October 1981: a bomb explodes at a Wimpy Bar in Oxford Street London killing the bomb disposal officer trying to defuse it. [England]
                          * 20 July 1982: The Hyde Park and Regents Park bombings: In Hyde Park, a bomb kills two members of the Household Cavalry performing ceremonial duties in the park. Seven of their horses are also killed. The deaths of the horses received almost as much coverage in the English tabloids as those of the men. On the same day another device kills seven bandsmen the Royal Green Jackets as it explodes underneath the bandstand in Regents Park as they played music to spectators. [England]
                          * 1983: A Harrods department store bomb planted by the IRA during Christmas shopping season kills six (three police) and wounds 90. [England]
                          * September 25, 1983: 38 IRA prisoners escape from the maximum security Long Kesh prison. One guard dies of a heart attack during the escape.
                          * December 26, 1983: The IRA is blamed for a bombing in London which later is revealed to be the result of the Abu Nidal Organisation.
                          * 1984: In the Brighton hotel bombing a bomb in the Grand Hotel kills five in a failed attempt to assassinate members of the British cabinet. Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher narrowly escapes. Five people are killed, and one woman permanently disabled. [England]
                          * 1985 February, IRA mortar attack on RUC police station in Newry kills 9 Police Officers
                          * 1987: The SAS ambush two IRA cells as they attempted to attack an Royal Ulster Constabulary police station in Loughgall. Eight IRA men are killed. Sinn Féin later claim that they were "brutally executed without the right to a trial". [Northern Ireland]
                          * 1987: In the Enniskillen "Massacre" the IRA bombing of a Remembrance Day parade kills 11 civilians and injures 63. Among the dead is nurse Marie Wilson, whose father, Gordon Wilson, would go on to become a leading campaigner for an end to violence in Northern Ireland. The IRA would later state that their target was a colour guard of British soldiers, and stand down the local brigade. On Remembrance Day 1997 the leader of Sinn Féin, Gerry Adams, formally apologised for the bombing. [Northern Ireland]
                          * 1988: The SAS attack an IRA cell that were planning to detonate a bomb near a public military parade in Gibraltar. Two men, Daniel McCann and Sean Savage, and a woman Mairead Farrell, all unarmed, were killed. Although initial reports claimed the three terrorists had been shot and killed when about to set off a massive car bomb, within 24 hours the Foreign Secretary, Geoffrey Howe, was forced to admit this was not the case. However, a car used by the bombers was found in Marbella two days after the killings containing 140 lb of Semtex, timed to go off during the changing of the guard. [Gibraltar]. At the funeral of the three IRA volunteers, Michael Stone, a member of the Ulster Freedom Fighters(UFF), launched hand grenades during the graveside oration, killing a further three people. One week later, two British soldiers, Howes & Woods, in civilian clothes who drove too close to an IRA funeral were killed because the mourners believed them to be launching an attack like Michael Stone's [3].
                          * 1989: Ten Royal Marine bandsmen are killed and 22 injured in the bombing of their base in Deal in Kent. [England]
                          * 1990: Car bombings in Northern Ireland kill seven and wound 37. [Northern Ireland]
                          * 27 May 1990: Two Australian tourists shot and killed in the Netherlands, having been mistaken for off-duty British soldiers from a base across the German border.
                          * July 20, 1990: The IRA exploded a large bomb at the London Stock Exchange causing massive damage.
                          * 30 July 1990 Ian Gow MP is killed when a device explodes under his car as he is leaving his home. [England]
                          * September 19, 1990: The IRA attempted to kill Air Chief Marshall Sir Peter Terry at his Staffordshire home. Sir Peter had been a prime target since his days as Governor of Gibraltar, where he signed the documents allowing the SAS to pursue IRA terrorists. The revenge attack took place at 9pm at the Main Road house. The gunman opened fire through a window hitting Sir Peter at least 9 times and injuring his wife, Lady Betty Terry, near the eye. The couple's daughter, Liz, was found suffering from shock. Sir Peter's face had to be rebuilt as the shots shattered Sir Peter's face and 2 high-velocity bullets lodged a fraction of an inch from his brain. [England]
                          * 1990: A British Royal Artillery officer is killed by the IRA in Dortmund in the then West Germany.
                          * 18 February 1991: A bomb explodes at Victoria Station. One man is killed and 38 people injured. [England]
                          * 1991: Mortar attack on members of the British Cabinet and the Prime Minister, John Major in Cabinet session at Number 10 Downing Street at the height of a huge security clampdown amid the Gulf War is launched by the IRA. The Cabinet collectively got under the table to protect themselves. [England]
                          * 1991: Two IRA members are killed in St Albans when their bomb detonates prematurely. [England]
                          * 28 February 1992: A bomb explodes at London Bridge railway station injuring 29 people. [England]
                          * 10 April 1992: A large bomb explodes at 30 St Mary Axe in the City of London killing three people and injuring 91. Many buildings are heavily damaged and the Baltic Exchange is completely destroyed. [England]
                          * 12 October 1992: A device explodes in the gents' toilet of the Sussex Arms public house in Covent Garden killing one person and injuring four others. [England]
                          * 1992: Eight builders are killed by an IRA bomb on their way to work at an army base near Omagh. [Northern Ireland]
                          * 1993: Two IRA bombs at opposite ends of a shopping street in Warrington, timed to go off within minutes of each other, kill two children. [England]
                          * 1993: The PIRA detonates a huge truck bomb in the City of London at Bishopsgate, which kills two and causes around £350m of damage, including the near destruction of St Ethelburga's Bishopsgate. [England]
                          * 1993: The Shankill Road bombing at a fish and chip shop underneath a UDA office on the Protestant Shankill Road in Belfast detonates prematurely, killing ten, including one of the bombers and two children. [Northern Ireland]
                          * 8 March 1994: Heathrow Airport, four mortar shells were fired toward Heathrow Airport from a car at night following telephone warnings in the name of the IRA, but police said none of the shells exploded and no injuries were reported.
                          * 10 March 1994: Heathrow Airport evacuated staff and passengers from Terminal Four and closed its southern runway after the second attack on the airport in 30 hours. No one was hurt when four mortar shells were fired.
                          * 13 March 1994: Heathrow Airport, the IRA launched their third mortar attack on Heathrow defying tightening security. They fired four mortar bombs from a heavily camouflaged launcher buried in scrubland close to the southern perimeter. Later that night both Heathrow and Gatwick airports were closed for 2 hours after renewed coded telephoned bomb threats were received.
                          * 1 September 1994: The PIRA declares the first of two ceasefires in the 1990s.
                          * 10 February 1996: The IRA ends its 1994 ceasefire, killing two civilians in a bombing adjacent to the South Quay DLR station in London's Docklands. [England]
                          * 15 February 1996: A 5 lb bomb placed in a phone booth is disarmed by Police on the Charing Cross Road in London.
                          * 18 February 1996: An improvised high explosive device detonates prematurely on a bus travelling along Aldwych in central London, killing Edward O'Brien, the IRA operative transporting the device and injuring eight others. [England]
                          * 15 June 1996: The IRA detonates a 3,300 lb (1,500 kg) bomb in Manchester, injuring 206 people and damaging 70,000 square metres of retail and office space. [England]
                          * 13 July 1996 Car bomb containing upto 1,200 lb of home-made explosives exploded outside the Kilyhelvin Hotel, Enniskillen, County Fermanagh, causing substantial damage. The blast injured 17 people as they were being evacuated from the hotel. [CIRA]
                          * 29 September 1996 Car bomb containing 250 lb of home-made explosives was abandoned in Belfast. Security forces used a controlled explosion to make the bomb safe. [CIRA]
                          * 7 October 1996: the IRA kills one soldier and injures 31 people at the British Army's Northern Ireland HQ, Thiepval Barracks. [Northern Ireland]
                          * 21 November 1996 A 600lb bomb, which failed to explode, was found abandoned in Derry. [CIRA]
                          * 14 May 1997 Car bomb partially explodes in Belfast injuring a CIRA member. British Army defuse the device. [CIRA]
                          * 6 July 1997 Grenade attack on the New Barnsley RUC station in Belfast.Other shooting incidents in Belfast on the same day. [CIRA]
                          * 19 July 1997: The IRA declares a second ceasefire.
                          * 31 July 1997 A bomb, estimated at between 500 and 1,000 lb, was left at the grounds of Carrybridge Hotel, near Lisballaw, County Fermanagh. [CIRA]
                          * 9 August 1997 CIRA plant a hoax van bomb prior on Craigavon Bridge, Derry prior to the start of the start of the Apprentice Boys' parade through the city.
                          * 16 September 1997 Large bomb explodes in Markethill, Co Armagh, damaging much of the town. [CIRA]
                          * 30 October 1997 CIRA claim responsibility for the attempted bombing of government offices in Derry.
                          * 20 November 1997 CIRA left a small bomb behind Belfast City Hall
                          * 6 January 1998 : Car bomb placed by the Real IRA (RIRA) is defused in the centre of Banbridge, County Down.
                          * 11 January 1996 Statement issued announcing the existence of the Continuity IRA (CIRA).
                          * 23 February 1998: Car bomb exploded in centre of Portadown, County Armagh. [RIRA]
                          * 10 March 1998 Mortar bomb attack on RUC station in Armagh, County Armagh. [RIRA]
                          * 24 June 1998 Car bomb exploded in Newtownhamilton, County Armagh. [RIRA]
                          * 1998 January, IRA kills loyalist UDA paramilitary Bobby Dougan in retaliation for killings of Catholics. Sinn Féin temporarily excluded from peace talks.
                          * 13 January 1998 Shots fired at funeral of CIRA leader, Dermot McGuirk, in Dublin.
                          * 24 January 1998 Car bomb exploded outside an entertainment club, the 'River Club' on Factory Road in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. [CIRA]
                          * March 1998 Small bomb left in the Northern Bank in Derry city center, CIRA claims members of the PIRA tried to prevent them carrying out attack. [CIRA]
                          * 22 July 1998 Mortar bomb attack on RUC station in Newry, County Armagh. [RIRA]
                          * 28 July 1998 Incendiary bombs were found in stores in Portadown, County Armagh. [RIRA]
                          * 2 August 1998 Car bomb exploded in centre of Banbridge, County Down. The bomb resulted in 33 civilians being seriously injured with over £2m of damage caused. [RIRA]
                          * 15 August 1998 The Real IRA's single, bloodiest strike in the 30-year history of partisan conflict resulted with the bombing of the shopping district in Omagh. 29 people were killed and hundreds injured when a car packed with 500Ib of explosives detonated at 3.10pm.
                          * 4 September 1998 CIRA claim gun attack on RUC patrol in Armagh. RUC deny it took place.
                          * 23 September 1998 CIRA weapons seized in Dublin.
                          * Winter 1998 The Real IRA call a ceasefire, it last less than two years.
                          * 1999 Former IRA man Eamon Collins killed by IRA near Newry for testifying against Thomas "Slab" Murphy, leader of South Armagh IRA in a libel case with the Sunday Times.
                          * 14 January 1999 Gun attack on Woodbourne RUC Station in West Belfast. Four men later convicted. [CIRA]
                          * 4 February 1999 Channel 4 documentary shows CIRA propaganda video.
                          * 4 May 1999 Gun attack on Lisnaskea RUC Station in Co Fermanagh. [CIRA]
                          * 2 June 1999 Bomb hoax in Armagh City causes chaos. [CIRA]
                          * 4 November 1999 CIRA prisoner, Tommy Crossan, is attacked by a Loyalist prisoner in Maghaberry Prison.
                          * 27 December 1999 Bomb hoax forces the evacuation of Kempton Park racetrack in England. [CIRA]
                          * 2000 The Real IRA conduct a rocket propelled grenade attack took place on the MI6 headquarters in London.
                          * 23 January 2000 Limerick man arrested transporting a major explosives haul for the Continuity IRA. He was later jailed for eight years by the Special Criminal Court.
                          * 6 February 2000 Bomb explosion at a hotel in Irvinestown; there were no injuries. [CIRA]
                          * 13 April 2000 Mortar attack on Roslea RUC Station in Co Fermanagh. [CIRA]
                          * 19 May 2000 Series of bomb alerts in Belfast City Centre. Nothing found. [CIRA]
                          * 1 November 2000 Booby-trap bomb in Castlewellan, County Down, in which an RUC officer lost a leg and two fingers. The CIRA later claimed responsibility.[7]
                          * 14 December 2000 One man and a 16 year old boy arrested after bomb found in car in Belfast City Centre. [CIRA]
                          * 3 March 2001 The Real Ira explode a car-bomb outside the BBC Television Centre in Shepherd's Bush, West London, seriously injuring eleven civilians.
                          * 31 May 2001 Dermot Gannon from Dublin becomes first person to be convicted of membership of the CIRA solely on the word of a Garda chief superintendent. He was jailed for four years.
                          * 22 June 2001 Thomas Ryan, 25, from Kilscanlan, Foulksmills, Co Wexford pleaded guilty to possession of 87 sticks of gelignite. He received an 8 year suspended sentence after co-operating with the police.
                          * 26 June 2001 Bomb making materials and 60lbs of homemade explosives found on the Monaghan border. [CIRA]
                          * 19 July 2001 Gun and grenade attack on Castlewellan RUC Station in Co Down. [CIRA]
                          * 17 October 2001 350lb bomb seized in Co Tyrone. Man later convicted. [CIRA]
                          * 30 October 2001 5kg bomb explodes on hijacked bus outside Woodbourne RUC Station. [CIRA]
                          * 19 December 2001 Bomb damages Custom office in Co Fermanagh. [CIRA]
                          * 24 March 2002 Gun attack on Beleek RUC Station in Co Fermanagh. [CIRA]
                          * 24 July 2002 Explosion on Fermanagh estate of Unionist peer Lord Brookeborough. [CIRA]
                          * February 2003 Pipe Bomb attack on Woodbourne PSNI Station, Belfast. [CIRA]
                          * 18 February 2003 Nail Bomb attack on Antrim Road PSNI Station, Belfast. [CIRA]
                          * December 2004 15 fire bomb attacks against premises in Belfast attributed to the Real IRA.
                          * 5 July 2005 Hoax Bomb warning in Keady, Co Armagh. [CIRA]
                          * 9 July 2005 Pipe Bomb attack on Coalisland PSNI Station, Co Tyrone. [CIRA]
                          * 12 July 2005 Blast Bombs thrown at PSNI during riots in Ardoyne, Belfast. [CIRA]
                          * 13 July 2005 Improvised device discovered in Armagh after emailed bomb warning. [CIRA]
                          * December 2005 A suspected Continuity IRA member was arrested while driving a bomb through Dublin. Gardaí believe the device was intended for use against drugs gangs in the city.
                          * 19 April 2006 250 lb bomb discovered in Lurgan, Co Armagh. Four men arrested. [CIRA]
                          Originally posted by voilodian ghagnasdiak
                          My reference to Winston C. was simply that he would not by any means have tolerated such a threat if it was imposed upon England.
                          We know that Churchill wasn't averse to approving similiar tactics to those being used by Hezbollah and the Israeli army:

                          Map of Dresden showing the amount of destruction rendered by RAF Strategic Bombing between 13-15 Feb. 1945.
                          Black = total destruction; checkered = partially damaged

                          Although even Churchill distanced himself from the tactics of 'carpet bombing' used on Dresden in the weeks afterwards: "...the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed..."

                          My point is that no matter what the IRA might have done during it's period of activity I don't believe that sizeable potions of the British nation would have tolerated the sort of apparently indiscriminate targeting of civilian population areas that we're seeing in Israel and Lebonan or have regarded it as a valid form of retaliation. (Viz. the public opposition to the War in Iraq.)

                          Regardless, I would just as decidedly condemn the British Govt if it ever did enagage in such practices as I do Hezbollah and the Israeli Govt. Others obviously may disagree.
                          Last edited by David Mosley; 07-26-2006, 11:47 PM.
                          _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                          _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                          _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                          _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."


                          • #88
                            I assume that when Major Hess-von Kruedener, may he rest in peace, referred to "Israeli Occupied Lebanon" he meant the Sheeba Farms. However, the UN has acknowledged that the Sheeba Farms area is actually a Syrian territory, and not Lebanese, thus Israel withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000 was a complete one, and the term "Israeli Occupied Lebanon" is inappropriate.

                            Lebanon and Syria, on the other hand, claim that the area is Lebanese, and so does Hezbollah which uses it as a justification (or rather excuse) for its "resistance" against Israel.

                            Frankly, I think Israel should just get out of this controversial area; it's of no use anyhow. But it should be taken care that such a withdrawal would not be presented as a Hezbollah victory.


                            • #89
                              I think Israel emerged out of the terrible (and nearly unique) experience that over the centuries powers extremely limited the survival and growth of the Jews, finally even tried to wipe out their race completely. Out of this an unshakable resolve was born to never let it happen again or to let anybody get within miles of achieving such a goal. The primary aim of the Jewish state is not the creation of a pluralistic democratic society (fine, if it comes as a side effect), but the creation of a safe homestead for Jews and all that means something to them. Imagine folks who know that they are unwanted and persecuted again and again for 2000 years! A Native American may perhaps sense what this is about. So, the behaviour is understandable, but also easily leads to (yet another) isolation. The reactions (that we perceive as exaggerated) against any threat, real or unrealistic, lead to further isolation, mentally, in a tragic no-win situation.
                              An outcry from us (which is justified) over the devastating effect on civilians and the accidental (or not ?) killing of UN peacekeepers only results in strengthening a "bunker"- and "ourselves alone" mentality (which I'm sure many Israelis deplore). At the same time all the ultra-rightists of the world are rubbing their hands in glee, thanking the Iranian president for denying the Holocaust and for the propaganda victory: "Cynical Jews bombing Civilians, and the European Union will thave to pay the reconstruction costs when the fighting is over!" Along this line, just wait. In Israel this will then strengthen the hardliners who say: "See! You can't trust anybody but us!"
                              Google ergo sum


                              • #90
                                I would like to add, that the current attempt to strike at Hezbollah and Hamas (whose declared aim it is to finish what left unfinished) is unquestionably strengthening the enemys of Israel ...!
                                Google ergo sum