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I HATE XMAS

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  • #16
    Originally posted by LEtranger
    Knecht Ruprecht... carries the sack and a bundle of strong twigs with which he threatens to punish naughty children.
    Any relation to "Black Peter"? Could Santa and Black Peter be a splitting of the single character of Knecht Ruprecht?
    "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
    --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

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    • #17
      Originally posted by LEtranger
      Knecht Ruprecht is the companion with a serf-like status of St. Nikolaus (Nicolas) in Southern German and Austria mythology. He carries the sack and a bundle of strong twigs with which he threatens to punish naughty children.
      so "bundle of strong twigs" has amazing similarity with the word "knout" , german mytho is close to scandinavian 's. Is he a buddy of the "Pied Piper " ?
      Knout:From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
      Jump to: navigation, search
      A knout (rhymes with "boot") is a heavy scourge-like whip, usually made of a bunch of rawhide thongs attached to a long handle, sometimes with metal wire or hooks incorporated.

      Some claim it was a Tatar invention and was introduced into Russia in the 15th century, maybe by Ivan III. Others trace the word to Varangians and derive it from the Swedish knutpiska a kind of whip with knots. Still others maintain it is of generic Germanic origin, not necessarily Scandinavian, comparing it with the German "Knute", English "knot".

      It served as the official method of corporal punishment in Russia until 1845, when it was replaced with the pleti. A punishment of 100 lashes would almost certainly kill the recipient. Even twenty lashes could maim; with the specially extended Great Knout twenty blows could kill.

      The dreaded instrument became synonymous in western European languages with what was seen as the tyrannical cruelty of the autocratic government of Russia, much as the sjambok brought to mind the Apartheid government of South Africa or lynching the period of Jim Crow in America. The expression "under the knout" is used to designate harsh totalitarianism.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
        Originally posted by LEtranger
        Knecht Ruprecht... carries the sack and a bundle of strong twigs with which he threatens to punish naughty children.
        Any relation to "Black Peter"? Could Santa and Black Peter be a splitting of the single character of Knecht Ruprecht?
        I am not sure. I'm not too drenched with savvy in Church matters. Family didn't care for those things. You have to understand that in the Germanic regions St. Nicholas is the goodie-bringer on Dec. 6th. And he comes with the "scare-the-kids"-bloke. And on Christmas Eve the Catholics expect the "Christkind" ... hence the Saviour as a babe (who you don't get to see because it was trained with the SAS and comes surreptiously) and the Protestants (more to the North and Scandinavia) have more visitations by Father Christmas or "Weihnachtsmann" who often comes along as a jolly old bloke. It think he is closer to the Scandinavian "Tomte"-creatures, just better fed and definitely a lot more rugged than the shy "Christkind" (or in the diminuitive form "Christkindle" or "Christkindlein").
        Fun was usually the "Osterhase" - yes, you've guessed it - the Easterbunny who also brings goodies.
        Google ergo sum

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        • #19
          I thought, given the title of this thread, that alian was possibly using the Ruppert reference to evoke the idea of Knecht Rupert as an avatar to embody and give a spin to his feelings concerning Christmas, seems like it was just a happy accident. :)

          Black Peter is more from the Dutch traditions I believe.

          I wish everyone a easy and non-stressed winter-time year's end, peace.
          "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Talisant
            I thought, given the title of this thread, that alian was possibly using the Ruppert reference to evoke the idea of Knecht Rupert as an avatar to embody and give a spin to his feelings concerning Christmas, seems like it was just a happy accident. :)

            Black Peter is more from the Dutch traditions I believe.

            I wish everyone a easy and non-stressed winter-time year's end, peace.

            pure coincidence ? maybe.
            when I was a little boy I lived in North of France, in my culture I heard about Saint Nicolas the "full of goodness" (like St. Declan in irish). Later the Saint Nicolas is supposed to have been the model which was used to turn into Santa in US (should I remind Santa Claus was formerly an ad on coca-cola bottles). But he showed up for good kids only. On the other gloomy side there was a negative character you can find more on this link:
            [color=blue]http://www.joyeuse-fete.com/saint-nicolas/[color]

            this is quote of a fragment, I didn't invent it:

            Saint Nicolas is accompanied by a hard character to the blackened face which carries a rod. He is known in the east of France under the name of "bogyman", which distributes rods to the little children who were not wise during the year. It is only in XVIe century that one started to speak about bogyman.[/

            Maybe I tend to see only Mr Bogeyman in Christmas fairy tale. Is it serious case , doc ? I'll ask my psy.
            Again, this is like the half-full and half-empty glass dilemma: throw the glass away because it doesn't really matter.
            I'm eager to see the end of my antidepressant pills bag.
            Thank you to your good wish Talisant, I wish you and all people around here sincerely a good time too.
            Alian.

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            • #21
              :up:
              "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by alian
                I found out that "Knecht" translates farmhand in eng. i.e. man working in a farm ; or it can be view as a KNOUT from the French transliteration of a Russian word of Scandinavian origin cf. cnotta, Eng. knot), the whip used in Russia under Ivan III (1462-1505) for flogging criminals and political offenders.
                So if I summarize this data a KNECHT is a kind of cow-boy with a strong pair of arms ? maybe ?
                (*)http://www.kuftc.com/
                [/color]
                "Knekt" is an old scandinavian word for soldier or an infantry man. The jack, in the cardgame, is called a "knekt". A "knight" is called a "Riddare" though.

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                • #23
                  Last and least may I give you a subtle hint of santa claus.
                  In my son's german-french dictionnary "weihnachtsmann" is "santa Claus" or litterally " christmas father" in sky-english .
                  Phonetically it sounds like "vine hartman" i.e. a tough guy ( sergent Hartman in "Full Metal Jacket") with a big red nose full of grapevine juice (before drinking coca ) . Tip: the real santa claus was killed by his evil twin of brother Bogeyman; and then he became a night prowler hidden in a fun-fair red-nose clown.
                  Now I know why is there so much english D rated 70's movies with a serial killer disguised in Santa Claus ! no kidding , it's the true truth (about the movies). I've seen it.
                  :lol:

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                  • #24
                    One of the spookiest (for the time - early '60s?) Twilight Zones involved a serial killer dressed as Santy, I believe it was banned from the airwaves for quite a while after it's initial airing.
                    "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      There was a film called 'Black Christmas' based on the same idea.
                      \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Talisant
                        One of the spookiest (for the time - early '60s?) Twilight Zones involved a serial killer dressed as Santy, I believe it was banned from the airwaves for quite a while after it's initial airing.

                        It's an oldie but goldie . The concept was fine .." We are now taking control for your TV, don't try to trigger the image" ( The script was a Lissajou curve. I remember it was the time the TV had a vertical and horizontal sweep adjustable , on the rear side, just close to the 20,000 volts tube connector zzzzzzzzzzzzztchhcrrrr! experience to transform your finger into a hamburger ) .
                        It can scarcely be said that it didn't inspired Chris Carter X-Files !

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                        • #27
                          Serial Slayer Santa?

                          Maybe that explains this guy's holiday decoration:

                          Blindfolded Santa Hanging From Noose At Home Upsets Neighborhood

                          A large blindfolded Santa hanging from a noose from a high tree in a man's yard has angered homeowners in a Florida neighborhood, according to a Local 6 News report.

                          The Santa doll, which neighborhood children can easily see, was put up by homeowner Ron Stroia at his home located on 555 West 50th Street in Miami Beach, the report said.

                          "It's just wrong, I mean who would want their children to see this, and it reminds adults of lynching," neighbor Estelle Farnsworth said. "It's just nasty, there is no spirit of Christmas in this."

                          The Santa also has his hands and legs bound by some type of wire.

                          "Now the kids are sad with that, you know, because they say it's not fair with Santa," neighbor Tanira Giacian said. "Santa should be around bringing their gifts, looking for the gifts, and not hanging on a tree. They're just kind of scared of that."

                          Since the display was put in the tree, neighbors have called police to get it removed, but officers said there is nothing they can do because the homeowner is protected under the First Amendment, Local 6 News reported.

                          Stroia would not talk with reporters, but did say by telephone that it's his right to display the Santa whether neighbors like it or not.

                          "This has really caused a big stir in the neighborhood, this is just cruel," Farnsworth said.
                          http://www.local6.com/news/5491296/detail.html

                          "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                          --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
                            Serial Slayer Santa?

                            Maybe that explains this guy's holiday decoration:

                            Blindfolded Santa Hanging From Noose At Home Upsets Neighborhood

                            A large blindfolded Santa hanging from a noose from a high tree in a man's yard has angered homeowners in a Florida neighborhood, according to a Local 6 News report.

                            The Santa doll, which neighborhood children can easily see, was put up by homeowner Ron Stroia at his home located on 555 West 50th Street in Miami Beach, the report said.

                            "It's just wrong, I mean who would want their children to see this, and it reminds adults of lynching," neighbor Estelle Farnsworth said. "It's just nasty, there is no spirit of Christmas in this."

                            The Santa also has his hands and legs bound by some type of wire.

                            "Now the kids are sad with that, you know, because they say it's not fair with Santa," neighbor Tanira Giacian said. "Santa should be around bringing their gifts, looking for the gifts, and not hanging on a tree. They're just kind of scared of that."

                            Since the display was put in the tree, neighbors have called police to get it removed, but officers said there is nothing they can do because the homeowner is protected under the First Amendment, Local 6 News reported.

                            Stroia would not talk with reporters, but did say by telephone that it's his right to display the Santa whether neighbors like it or not.

                            "This has really caused a big stir in the neighborhood, this is just cruel," Farnsworth said.
                            http://www.local6.com/news/5491296/detail.html

                            I feel like Mr Burns.. "Ahhhh Exellent!!!"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
                              Serial Slayer Santa?

                              Maybe that explains this guy's holiday decoration:

                              ..from TV6 ...-->
                              "Now the kids are sad with that, you know, because they say it's not fair with Santa."
                              Personally my two children never paid attention to Santy, when she was a kid my daughter was scared when I tried to have her photo with the red buddy who haunts every stores.

                              I think the act you mentioned is a little clumsy (the act itself), because I believe one could joke with everything subject, but not with everyone none everywhere. In a forum ...why not, I did it, but in the real life clearly this Ron Stroia has been taken literally what for my own I see a conceptual way to put under spotlight the side effects that the xmas mercantilism have on our blind modern life. The mothers are right to not spoil children with such a story. Time will yet come too soon when the thin ice of life will crack.

                              (Roger Waters)
                              If you should go skating
                              On the thin ice of modern life
                              Dragging behind you the silent reproach
                              Of a million tear-stained eyes
                              Don't be surprised when a crack in the ice
                              Appears under your feet.
                              You slip out of your depth and out of your mind
                              With your fear flowing out behind you
                              As you claw the thin ice
                              (http://home.mchsi.com/~ttint/thethinice.html)
                              It's this very thin layer of ice that keeps us from slipping into the uncharted depths of our subconscious, an action that would lead to insanity as a result of being submerged in repressed and unrealized emotions.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Talisant
                                One of the spookiest (for the time - early '60s?) Twilight Zones involved a serial killer dressed as Santy, I believe it was banned from the airwaves for quite a while after it's initial airing.
                                See now that would make a wonderful change! I really am getting tired of seeing re-runs of Only Fools & Horses...and you can only see Home Alone so many times before getting bored.

                                Normally around this time of year I'd join you all in the "I hate xmas" chorus, what with my birthday also being close to xmas (used to get very depressed) - but this year I'm suprisingly looking forward to it. I'm not looking forward to the presents or the food - although they're a bonus - but this will be a time when the immediate family gets to see each other, as my bro has been away at uni. It's also going to be very different since we have all 'grown' up now :) lol.

                                Anyway, my suggestion is, is just to ignore the hype in the stores and constant playing of xmas songs on the radio, and just make the most of the day with family - and the inevitable argument that comes after someone has had way too much cherry (which is always funny). :P

                                Em

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