Ken Livingston

[Oren]

The upcoming weeks in Israeli politics should be fascinating. There seems to be no escape from holding the elections earlier than scheduled with the Likud probably splitting into two separate parties. Some predict that a new centre party might be formed, with Sharon heading it.

Turned out to be true:

Sharon 'set to quit Likud party'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4455356.stm

I suspect that Sharon will invite the defeated Peres to his new centre party. Will be funny to see two 77 and 82 years old veterans as the heads of a new party!

[Doc]

Dennis is the only one I saw live and I was highly impressed by his stand on issues. Also he won fair and square on a popular Democrat ticket in Ohio. The fact is that he was probably too short to stand. Call me a cynic but short guys don't win. He had been opposed to the war from the beginning and remained consistent throughout.

He "isn't Presidential" and "isn't a realist" are the two criticisms I remember most about Kucinich. Those two things seem to sum up what is wrong with much of American politics-- we want someone who looks the part of whatever office they hold, but we don't want them to have any real ideas or ideals.

Now who's a cynic :lol:

[Michael Moorcock]

Dennis is the only one I saw live and I was highly impressed by his stand on issues. Also he won fair and square on a popular Democrat ticket in Ohio. The fact is that he was probably too short to stand. Call me a cynic but short guys don't win. He had been opposed to the war from the beginning and remained consistent throughout. Kerry and Bush were only pretending, after all, to be 'men of the people'. Dennis actually was one. Maybe the realities are such that he couldn't have won, but it says something about voters voting against their own self-interest, which I don't think was true when they voted for FDR or Truman.

[Miqque]

Aw, c'mon, Mike. Right or not, in this media-happy society we persist in calling a nation do you really thin Dennis Kuchinich had the goods in presentation to win? Kerry got lambasted with the same rhetoric used against Carter (I swear they used the same speeches), which he happily walked right into by having the insight of your typical drooping house plant. Dennis unfortunately has a bit of an appearance that would remind the superficial to see him as a Perot-type. Didn't matter what the man said, that last campaign was sold on perception and spin, certainly not on content. This terrifies me, o' course. Truman would not have gotten in, nor would FDR, nor likely any of the Pre-Eisenhower presidents in this circus. C'mon, Schwartzeneggar as Governor? Opposed by Warren Beatty and Annette Bening? Who scripted this? Entertainment Tonight?

Yeah, I'm a bit despairing and grumpy tonight, for the news in Europe is bad (I lived through the Watts and Rodney King riots - riots ain't fun), the government acts like a bunch of monkeys, and what should be The Opposition cannot get their act together to even act unified.

Time for another pair of parties. We once had Whigs and Know-Nothings and Bull Mooses. It can happen. We can base it on comics. (In comedy is truth.) Base it on Stan Lee's "With great power comes great responsibility" and Walt Kelly's "We have met the enemy, and he is us." Then we elect John Stewart, who makes Bill Maher Secretary of State and Dennis Leary Secretary of Defense.

Then see who would win a debate!

(I think I got a fever...)

[Doc]

I think the Republicans also have to win a good chunk of working class votes, too. I always think of the old joke of the guy who borrowed a pair of boots to walk twenty miles in order to vote Conservative... Our political system is supposed to represent the self-interest of various factions in society. You'd never know it from the voting patterns. I do think that the Democrats will get a few more votes if they are seen to be representing the interests of the workers next time. Somehow Kerry never struck me as a representative of the people, whereas Dennis K definitely did, but he wasn't able to persuade his own party to back him, probably because he didn't have enough money... Blair, of course, although he leads a 'Labour' party gets enormous support from corporate interests, including the deeply anti-egaliterian Rupert Murdoch.

It should seem an enormous trick to get someone to vote against their fundamental interests, but masses of people seem quite willing to be so tricked.

I find people who have no stocks, yet vote for corporate interests to be especially baffling, particularly those who have been repeatedly disappointed by corporate machinery. I think some of them like to think that the system should be in place should their fortunes finally turn around.

You mention Kerry, but you left out the other side. I'm still befuddled that so people think (or at least thought) that W. is "one of us," decrying Kerry's money and Ivy League education. Of course, it made no sense, as W's Ivy League education was the same as Kerry's (though W's didn't seem to take), and he is the son of far more privilege than Kerry. Moreover, Cheney's balance sheet is nearly identical to Teresa Heinz's.

I suspect that they played to the lowest common demominator, but I don't like what that implies.

As an even more painful aside, it turns out that Kucinich has been right about almost everything. Dean, too.

[David Mosley]

Blair, of course, although he leads a 'Labour' party gets enormous support from corporate interests, including the deeply anti-egaliterian Rupert Murdoch.

Of course, it's going to be interesting in coming weeks that many of the same Tories who opposed Blair's (right-wing) Anti-Terror bill for 90 days detention of 'supects' without charge this week will be supporting his future Education and Health reforms because they chime so closely with their own policies and beliefs.

[Michael Moorcock]

I think the Republicans also have to win a good chunk of working class votes, too. I always think of the old joke of the guy who borrowed a pair of boots to walk twenty miles in order to vote Conservative... Our political system is supposed to represent the self-interest of various factions in society. You'd never know it from the voting patterns. I do think that the Democrats will get a few more votes if they are seen to be representing the interests of the workers next time. Somehow Kerry never struck me as a representative of the people, whereas Dennis K definitely did, but he wasn't able to persuade his own party to back him, probably because he didn't have enough money... Blair, of course, although he leads a 'Labour' party gets enormous support from corporate interests, including the deeply anti-egaliterian Rupert Murdoch.

[Mikey_C]

Ha, the fickle Israeli politics. Peretz, a powerful union leader (head of "The Histadrut"), just ousted Peres as head of the Labour Party.

This seems like good news to me. Here's an interview which gives the flavour of the man: http://www.labourstart.org/docs/en/000130.html

[David Mosley]

Peretz, who was born in Morocco (as opposed to the Polish Peres), is also a representative of the "oriental Jews", which might bring the Labour Party some new votes, as "oriental Jews" have traditionally been supporters of the Likud party (which is quite a paradox, considering they are many times from the lower, poorer classes, yet vote to a capitalist party).

As a comparison, from UK politics, it was estimated during the 1980s that 30% of 'working class' voters (a constituency you'd expect to support the Labour Party wholesale) used to vote quite reguarly for Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative Party. When I was studying Politics in the late '80s at school we were told that the Conservatives had to win a substantial %age of the working class vote in order to win anyway.

[Oren]

The upcoming weeks in Israeli politics should be fascinating. There seems to be no escape from holding the elections earlier than scheduled with the Likud probably splitting into two separate parties. Some predict that a new centre party might be formed, with Sharon heading it. The Israeli left is stilll in shambles with no real fresh worthy leadership; Peres seems to be the candidate that will run against Sharon (or Netanyahu...), as Barak just withdrew his candidacy for Labour leadership this week (the polls didn't favour him), stepping behind Peres.

Ha, the fickle Israeli politics. Peretz, a powerful union leader (head of "The Histadrut"), just ousted Peres as head of the Labour Party. I guess if there's an Eternal Champion, there is also an Eternal Loser, which is probably Peres, with his distinguishable record of losing 5 times the elections for prime minister (in 1977, 1981, 1984, 1988, and 1996) and several times in his own party as well (and to make it worse, the polls always favour him!). I'm not a great supporter of Peretz, but I think that the fact that he's been consistent in his support of peace with the Palestenians is a good sign. Peretz, who was born in Morocco (as opposed to the Polish Peres), is also a representative of the "oriental Jews", which might bring the Labour Party some new votes, as "oriental Jews" have traditionally been supporters of the Likud party (which is quite a paradox, considering they are many times from the lower, poorer classes, yet vote to a capitalist party). I wonder if Peretz will manage to win over Sharon in the upcoming elections. That would be a harder task than defeating Peres.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/me....ap/index.html

[IanAbrahams]

[quote="Michael Moorcock"] Livingstone's dignified remarks after the transport bombings in London impressed many people and in other areas he has worked as a conscientious public servant. quote]

I also thought Livingstone, who I've not been particularly a fan of, did exceptionally well in his reaction to the London bombings, both whilst at the Olympic Bid and on his return for the vigil in Trafalgar Square. His comments were both well judged and emotionally resonated, really from the heart stuff.
His input into the Olympic bid has also, as I understand it, been particularly impressive in seezing upon the opportunity for regeneration of the East End and in his work in securing much of the finance.

[Michael Moorcock]

Had another try, pard.

[Oren]

Thanks for the clarification, Perdix :)

[xidrep]

I was making a general philosophical point brought on by the subject, Oren! Not directing it at the forum or the links!

[Oren]

I updated my profile with a new email and tested it successfully. I'm not sure why the old one didn't work. Might be because of T-Online starting to migrate emails to their domain (they've recently acquired the Hungarian telephone company including its Internet subsidiary), although they promised the old emails would continue working for 2 more years. I did get notifications from the website to that email (including one for this post). Probably just a temporal outage. Please let me know if you still have problems. It's much appreciated :clap: