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American fundamentalists

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  • American fundamentalists

    For as much as you know who these people are, it still gives the creeps.
    read thoses super-tasty quotes

  • #2
    My favorites:

    Originally posted by ann Coulter
    "Being nice to people is, in fact, one of the incidental tenets of Christianity, as opposed to other religions whose tenets are more along the lines of 'kill everyone who doesn't smell bad and doesn't answer to the name Mohammed'"
    Originally posted by Gary North
    "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship."
    Originally posted by W
    "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

    Originally posted by James Watt, secretary of the interior in charge of environment under Reagan
    "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."*


    • #3
      Originally posted by Pat Robertson
      "The Islamic people, the Arabs, were the ones who captured Africans, put them in slavery, and sent them to America as slaves. Why would the people in America want to embrace the religion of slavers."


      • #4
        Originally posted by mordenkainen
        Originally posted by Pat Robertson
        "The Islamic people, the Arabs, were the ones who captured Africans, put them in slavery, and sent them to America as slaves. Why would the people in America want to embrace the religion of slavers."
        The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords


        • #5
          I still remember how annoyed the friend I was staying with in Oakland got when she kept walking in on me watching that 700 club show, but I couldn't turn the channel... of course it's appalling, ignorant gibberish, but there's something hypnotic about it. Like a broadcast from an alien world.

          "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild


          • #6
            Get to know the Bible, particularly what Jesus actually said. I do not think many of these intolerant boobs would get His approval. More likely, most would fall into the "generation of vipers", "fools" and "mockers" categories. Whenever there are expressions of intolerance, hate, and negative judgments of others, it is NOT Gospel (translated = good news). It's just politics, powermongering, and totally of the flesh.

            Yet even televangelism has its place. Personally, I'm not a 700 Club/any-kinda-club fan. I find the more responsible teachers (who are by no means perfect, but who at least try to get it right and back it up with scripture) are Hal Lindsay, Jack Van Impe and Gene Scott. The whole rest of the lot have political irons in the fire.

            Any time that Gospel tries to mix with human endeavors, watch out. It's likely a warping of the Word. Read for yourself, and not just the "versions" - find decent teachers who will dig into the original writings (as much as we have of them) and define the original terms. You might be very surprised as to, say, the twenty-some words translated as "judgment" or the true meaning of "abomination".

            As for this lot of sanctimonious sucks, they shall be judged by the same measure they judge others.
            ... just another sailor on the seas of Fate, dogpaddling desperately ...


            • #7
              Thanks for that, Miqque! I'm thrilled to see you take that stance, because it's a sad, sad thing for Christianity to be bastardized so. Even so, my own parents, who are well-meaning Christians for sure, fall over the stumbling blocks laid out by these wolves in sheep's clothing.

              Just how Christianity and the Right Wing became mixed, I haven't a clue. It would seem true followers of Jesus Christ would love their neighbors as they love themselves and would realize that anything they do to the least of their bretheren, they do unto their lord. Somehow, modern Christians have decided the Bible is wrong with that "the love of money is the root of all evil" stuff. Just look at Pat Robertson; how much money did he make last year? Billy Graham... I forget... just how many Rolls Royces does he have again?

              Finally, I sure do wish someone would show me where in the Bible Jesus condoned killing anyone. Maybe then I'd understand this war against Muslims my "Christian" president is waging.
              "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
              --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars


              • #8

                Somebody ask Jimmy Swaggart what caused him to end up in a motel room with a hooker. 'Little Satan' in his pants, I reckon!

                Just more examples of why we don't need a Pope in the White House.

                If it ever happens, I might just turn Renegade!
                Madness is always the best armor against Reality


                • #9

                  So good to have found a kindred soul who does not leave brain at the church door. It's funny, but one thing I still can't tolerate is intolerance!

                  Putting the "fun" back in "fundamentalist",
                  ... just another sailor on the seas of Fate, dogpaddling desperately ...


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheAdlerian
                    I recall that the puritans had a belief that wealth equaled a gift from god. ...if you view it this way it’s easy to see how American Christians could hook up with republicans.
                    I can see that and I've heard lotsa Christians use the "we are blessed" thing to explain their wealth. But the fact is that Jesus said, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (Matt. 19:21) Not a lot there to debate about. And when he follows it up, practically in the same breath, with the whole camel-through-a-needle's-eye thing, well, it's painfully clear.

                    It's also two-fold. It's not enough to just cast away your possessions. You must use them to aid those less fortunate than yourself. Thus, if we were a truly "Christian" nation as the Religious Right would have you believe (despite what the Constitution says), funding for mental hospitals, schools, and free clinics would not be so hard to obtain. Wars, on the other hand, would be next to impossible to get approved.

                    Originally posted by TheAdlerian
                    This is the opposite view of, from what I understand, the Mother Teresa type of Catholic. They believe that the more miserable a person is the more blessed that they are.
                    Well, Mother T might be a bad example (I'll spare you my rant about her) but I know what you mean. Buddha had the same philosophy and I think it was what Jesus was talking about in the passage I just quoted.
                    "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                    --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars


                    • #11
                      Spent a good part of last year reading the 3 doorstep volumes of Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle, which gives an historical insight into early Protestantism (i.e. that it was as much a political as religious battle, with the Protestants standing for free trade against Kings and Pope).

                      There's a good article in the UK Guardian that I will post a link to later if I can find it, but it was pointing out that the attitude that 'the poor will be with you always' has often been used by the Church, and many Christians, as a kind of self-justification (it is the duty of Christians to give to the poor, rather than alleviate poverty). The basic gist of the article was than round about the same period as the Stephenson books, just before the French Revolution, poverty and starvation were as much part of the fabric of Europe as they are seen to be in Africa today, and that much the same attitudes towards the impossibility of addressing it existed - that 'the poor' were a natural segment of society, rather than one created by the social organisation of society.


                      • #12
                        I'm not surprised the Puritans came up. They're the ones who removed the Book of Enoch from the Bible. If you'd care to read it, there a good translation here: Book of Enoch translated from the Dead Sea Scrolls

                        I've also enjoyed some books by a fellow named Edward Rutherfurd, Sarum, London and most of The Forest (the latter slowed to a crawl in spots). Very interesting stuff about the course of the interactions between Christianity (Catholic v. Protestant) and both the crown and the government over time, and quite revealing as to why history took the course it did.

                        While I'm recommending books, Malachi Martin is a good writer of Vatican stuff. I particularly liked Windswept House and The Final Conclave.

                        Haven't read it yet, but I'm betting Brother Moorcock's Mother London has many insights into recent history.
                        ... just another sailor on the seas of Fate, dogpaddling desperately ...


                        • #13
                          I have been saying it for a long time now: Fundamentalists need each other. The vote in Iran is a reaction to Bushovik fundamentalism and will again strengthen the fundamentalist tendencies in the US. Ever since 9/11 (the tragedy which was a tremendous injection helping the fundamentalists' cause) and the resulting "you're either for us or against us"-rhetorics there have been less and less middletones. Middletones are for sissies, right? It is frightening. An American president who is convinced of a war being fought between "good" and "bad", between God and Satan, between Christianity and Islam is a permanent threat to the world's safety (which includes America of course).
                          You bet he's not going to budge in Edinburgh (remember the Alamo!) and will simply put American interests first, or rather what he perceives as America's interests. Climate? Why the f**k should America bother, its got the world's greatest density of air conditioners, so why worry?
                          Google ergo sum


                          • #14
                            King of The City is more recent history than Mother London I'd say. Mother London is more of an elegy to the city as Mike loved it I think. It's a wonderful book - the musical structure is very clear, opening with individual voices, building symphonically together, and I might be wrong but I think the central part is the fairground scene in about 1968, where all the characters (which I think Mike has admitted are, as such, different parts of his personality) are at their happiest.

                            It doesn't really cover the destruction of London in the 80s. (It's funny how so many of the people we regard as the London 'elite' aren't born Londoners at all).


                            • #15
                              Barsoomian Fundamentalism

                              I'm just finishing up the sixth John Carter of Mars book, The Master Mind of Mars and I've come across a passage wherein Burroughs makes his opinions about fundamentalist religion quite clear:

                              Originally posted by Edgar Rice Burroughs
                              "We must not ask," he assured me. "It is enough that we have faith that
                              all the works of Tur are just and righteous. Come! I shall soon be
                              through and we may join our companions."

                              He led me next to the figure of a monstrosity with a mouth that ran
                              entirely around its head. It had a long tail and the breasts of a
                              woman. About this image were a great many people, each standing upon
                              his head. They also were repeating, over and over, "Tur is Tur; Tur is
                              Tur; Tur is Tur." When we had done this for a minute or two, during
                              which I had a devil of a time maintaining my equilibrium, we arose,
                              dropped a coin into the box by the pedestal and moved on.

                              "We may go now," said Dar Tarus. "I have done well in the sight of Tur."

                              "I notice," I remarked, "that the people repeated the same phrase
                              before this figure that they did at the last--Tur is Tur."

                              "Oh, no," exclaimed Dar Tarus. "On the contrary they said just exactly
                              the opposite from what they said at the other. At that they said, Tur
                              is Tur; while at this they absolutely reversed it and said, Tur is Tur.
                              Do you not see? They turned it right around backwards, which makes a
                              very great difference."

                              "It sounded the same to me," I insisted.

                              "That is because you lack faith," he said sadly, and we passed out of
                              the temple, after depositing the rest of our money in a huge chest, of
                              which there were many standing about almost filled with coins.
                              This crystallizes the idea of religious fundamentalism. Reason and logic are thrown out in favor of blind devotion and it is heresy to ask questions. Further, if you don't "get it" then you simply lack faith.
                              "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                              --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars