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The Blame for Plame (More of the Same?)

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  • The Blame for Plame (More of the Same?)

    So, Time Magazine has decided they are going to hand over the reporterآ´s notes regarding a story about the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame. The reporter, Matt Cooper, was looking at jail time if he didn't give up his confidential sources. He said he'd rather go to jail than reveal the source; Time, on the other hand, was not as iron-willed.

    The imfamous claim (birthed by journalist Robert Novak) was that Bush officials deliberately outed Plame just to get back at her husband for his role in revealing the falsehoods of the whole yellowcake thing.

    The question I pose is this: Will the revelation that Bush officials did in fact do such a horrible thing result in any kind of backlash to them, or will it go the same way it always does -- with Bush and Co. getting away clean?

    Now that an investigation is underway, I am hopeful there will be justice. But I am also realistic. The Bush Administration seems to be coated with Teflon. Their skill in evasion is nothing short of incredible.

    Will they get away with this too?
    "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
    --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

  • #2
    A further erosion of civil liberties and the first amendment under W. It hurts, but I'm beginning to expect such pain.

    It ticks me off that Bob Novak seems to be getting a free pass in all of this.

    Comment


    • #3
      It should be interesting to see how Bush handles things now that it's understood the very man holding the president's marionette strings is the one who outed Valerie Plame (read about it). You know, considering what his administration's stance was back in September of 2003:

      "President Bush's chief spokesman said yesterday that the allegation that administration officials leaked the name of a CIA operative is 'a very serious matter' and vowed that Bush would fire anybody responsible for such actions."

      (Emphasis mine) SOURCE: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true

      It is a crime to knowingly out an undercover CIA agent and I personally think it should be considered treason. Rove should spend the rest of his life in prison. If you stop and think about the potential ramifications to all the people who are still undercover and who have been directly associated with Valerie Plame, the heinousness of Rove's actions becomes readily apparent. This is a man so evil he'd put people's lives in serious jeopardy just to get back at someone who disagreed with him.

      But will he get his? Not if yesterdayآ´s Fox All-Stars panel discussion is representative of the general mentality on the issue.

      So let's take a look at Rove's defense. He didn't actually know Plame's name (supposedly) and he didn't know what she did for the CIA (supposedly), therefore he didn't "knowingly" out her. He claims innocence because all he said was "Wilson's wife is fair game." 8O Oh, right. That makes it all just fine. Knowing she was CIA and making that knowledge fair game to the media is okay as long as you don't know her name or duties. Gotcha.

      I fear this will be swept under the rug like every other shady dealing this administration has been caught in. (Downing Street Memo, anyone?) I just don't understand how so many people can be so easily snowed by such an obvious group of slimeballs.

      (Sorry this is so unpolished. It's early and I'm sick.)
      "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
      --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheAdlerian
        Why was she outed and what was the effect of doing so?
        Remember the whole yellowcake thing? Bush said in a SotU speech that Iraq had sought to purchase significant quantities of Uranium from Niger.

        Valerie Plame's husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, a US ambassador, had voiced his beliefs (based on a trip to Niger specifically regarding the yellowcake deal) that the statement made by the president was a flat-out lie. He said there was absolutely no support for that claim at all.

        In evident retaliation, Rove told reporters that Wilson's wife was a CIA operative and was "fair game."

        Wilson and Plame have three year old twins, by the way. Wonder if Rove knew that?

        Read more!
        "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
        --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

        Comment


        • #5
          It looks like my fellow Seattlite Matt Baldwin has done up a nice synopsis of the whole thing at his website Defective Yeti...
          "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
          --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, since the trip Wilson went on was suggested by Plame, it is speculated the leak was to discredit Wilson by making it look like an easy trip his wife got for him.

            And that's just one theory. Another is that this is how someone like Rove deals with anyone who gets in the way of his master plan.

            As I look at the available info on this case and read people's opinions, it's coming to light that most people haven't a clue what this is all about and -- if I might be so bold -- don't rightly care. Notice that this isn't a very big topic here at MM, either. I just don't get why people aren't more flipped out over this. :?

            Too bad Bill was restricted. I'm sure he'd have some lawyerly, conservative insights to add.
            "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
            --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
              He claims innocence because all he said was "Wilson's wife is fair game."
              OK, boys, let's get her. [Hump,hump,grunt,grunt,oomph,say no more]
              "If the environment were a bank, we would already have saved it." -Graffitti.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
                As I look at the available info on this case and read people's opinions, it's coming to light that most people haven't a clue what this is all about and -- if I might be so bold -- don't rightly care. Notice that this isn't a very big topic here at MM, either. I just don't get why people aren't more flipped out over this. :?
                Let me bash on the "liberal" media, with respect to this:

                Before Rove was an enormous factor in having one of their own jailed, they were asleep as usual, taking White House Press Secretaries' words as canon. Only now that they are one step away from being eaten by Rove et. al.'s manipulations do they care.

                I don't think people are upset (or excited) yet because people are only now--and slowly--finding out the details. This is one I don't think the press will let go.

                Alternatively, people may just not care because they are so used to this administration lying to the American public.

                Comment


                • #9
                  http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/rove.php

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House broke its silence and said on Tuesday that President Bush continued to have confidence in his top political adviser, Karl Rove, despite his involvement in a scandal over the leak of the identity of a CIA agent."
                    -- AOL News, 2 hours ago

                    Well, it would appear it is indeed going to be more of the same.

                    Or will it? I wonder if Bush will grow a set and actually do something about Rove. That would of course mean getting Karl to remove his arm from up the president's backside, which could effectively render Bush without a working skeleton, but stranger things have happened. (I'm trying to be optimistic here, okay?)
                    "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                    --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What makes you think it wasn't done at Bush's demand?

                      LSN

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg in another thread
                        Thinking it stops with Rove strikes me as naive.
                        Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
                        What makes you think it wasn't done at Bush's demand?
                        I've considered the idea. Afterall, the second source has yet to be named (as far as I know).

                        Originally posted by TheAdlerian
                        ...outing a CIA agent... is a big deal for national security. Maybe not her case...
                        Or think of all those people with whom she is directly associated who are also undercover. They're probably all shaking in their boots wondering when the other shoe's going to drop. Suck if the wrong people recalled their relationship with Ms. Plame, eh?
                        "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                        --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
                          Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
                          What makes you think it wasn't done at Bush's demand?
                          I've considered the idea. Afterall, the second source has yet to be named (as far as I know).
                          I doubt Bush gave information directly. Doing so rids him of his plausible deniability. If he told his people to engage in what the odious Donald Segretti once called "rat-f*cking", he can still honestly say he didn't pass any information himself. Remember that these people are careful about splitting hairs in matters like this.

                          I'm getting a Watergate-redux flashback. I predict no one will be able to dig that deeply into this mess, because the ingredients for exploding a cover-up aren't there this time.

                          The SOP in these cases is to give up a lower-echelon (yet important) member of the "in" group, then later see to it that they never pay a penalty for what they did. See Oliver North or John Poindexter for recent examples.

                          "The justice system works."

                          Sure, if you're on top and running things.

                          LSN

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
                            I doubt Bush gave information directly. Doing so rids him of his plausible deniability... Remember that these people are careful about splitting hairs in matters like this.
                            Yeah, no kidding. Just look at the way Rove phrases things when asked directly about it. He told CNN in 2004, "I didn't know her name and didn't leak her name." That's very slick wording because actually naming her is what would damn him. Just calling her "Wilson's wife" gives him some room to wiggle free.

                            Of course, the slime he's covered in also helps.
                            "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                            --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
                              Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
                              I doubt Bush gave information directly. Doing so rids him of his plausible deniability... Remember that these people are careful about splitting hairs in matters like this.
                              Yeah, no kidding. Just look at the way Rove phrases things when asked directly about it. He told CNN in 2004, "I didn't know her name and didn't leak her name." That's very slick wording because actually naming her is what would damn him. Just calling her "Wilson's wife" gives him some room to wiggle free.
                              I'm a bit careful about language, and I notice such things all the time. People in government habitually use "scripted" messages to avoid saying something that'll turn into a problem later. Many of them have multiple legal counsels available to help draft such "scripts," too, in order to verify that it's free of possible legal encumbrance.

                              The Rove remarks were in my mind, but they're not the only things of this sort out there. You're invited to find more as an exercise. It's not hard.

                              Originally posted by PWV

                              Of course, the slime he's covered in also helps.
                              The cream rises to the top -- but so does the scum, and there's a lot more of it.

                              LSN

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