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Dangerous SOB

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  • Miqque
    replied
    There was a good discussion of bullying (psychological as well as physical) on this morning's Starting Over. (A syndie show on UPN mornings, about a group of women with 'life coaches' and a house psychologist - I'll edit in a link in a minute.)

    Here's the link (you can surf around the site for more info):
    Starting Over story

    Here's an excerpt:


    "Season two graduate Denise also grew up in an abusive environment where she witnessed and experienced her father’s physical abuse. Instead of isolating herself, she used her sarcastic humor to bully people. Because Denise never had guidelines set about appropriate behavior as a child, as an adult, Denise behaved any way she wanted. Dr. Stan advises women in abusive relationships to acknowledge that such behavior is not appropriate."

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Theocrat
    Originally posted by Doc
    Does Adorno have an agenda, as the reviewers suggest? Of course. Every academic work does. This is not Marxism, however, nor does it have a Marxist agenda.
    Is it a tough read? Or is it smooth and relatively easy to digest?
    I thought it was a pretty easy read, but I read it in graduate school. I was in the middle of similar reading, so my perspective is a bit skewed.

    Sorry I can't be of more help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theocrat
    replied
    Originally posted by Miqque
    This is what I've been talking about in this thread. I sincerely wish for a non-violent end to such situations, but that's a rare outcome. Perhaps in the political arena it can be different, as when the bully's true nature is exposed perhaps their confirmation for an important position will also come to an abrupt end.
    It's always the nice guys they pick at... Don't they?
    I bet it's insecurity as always. Not understanding them. And not wanting to either because of fear. I wonder which schools, in whatever country, attack the problem at heart?
    Parents could be the problem. They spread more idiocy than they would understand or care to admit. Is there a race issue involved in why he gets into fights?

    More beating, like some people want, doesn't solve the issue. (It even provokes pedophilia in students later in life) I went to such a school and I can tell you it didn't help. All it spreads is more violence. Sneaky and more under the surface.
    Which to me is even more scary.

    I think students should be tought more theater or roleplaying. And put themselves in different roles, that other kids have. "So kids understand why other people or (a person) are different and act the way they do."
    Kids aren't stupid! They just lack guidance and insight.
    And sports should be a little more downplayed.
    There are smart and good coaches though.
    Frank Leahy had a good comment about egotism.
    The movie 'Radar' brought me alot of hope on the subject of humanism and egalitarian thought in America.

    I don't know if there are more private schools in America now?
    Care to tell me?

    Leave a comment:


  • Miqque
    replied
    When I was having lunch today it was with a Navajo buddy of mine (poor guy has degenerative disc disease, and is up to his 18th or so surgery and facing more). Anyhow, we were talking about his 8-year-old son, who is in 3rd grade. Seems his son has been in trouble a bit for fighting (as the school puts it), but what's really happening is small roving gangs of 5th-graders are teaming up to beat on him. Like me, he is very big for his age, even now bigger than yon 5th-graders. So it take four of five of them to gather the balls to attack him, and, thanks to good parental advice, he usually ends up kicking the crap out of them. Then he gets in trouble for "fighting".

    Now, this is a fairly peaceable, mellow kid. He does not start fights, he is the victim. I know the scenario all too well, as this was my childhood replayed. Thing is, my dad told me "never hit anybody smaller than you". Well, he didn't mention that if there were half a dozen of the beggers the math works out to that they ARE bigger, cumutavely. I just wasn't quick enough with the math to work it out when I was being beat upon. By junior high, my math had caught up to the victimization, and there were rather abrupt ends to the bullyings. Oh yeah, i got suspended a couple of time, but the beatings stopped.

    This is what I've been talking about in this thread. I sincerely wish for a non-violent end to such situations, but that's a rare outcome. Perhaps in the political arena it can be different, as when the bully's true nature is exposed perhaps their confirmation for an important position will also come to an abrupt end.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theocrat
    replied
    Originally posted by Miqque
    I think the current answer to bullies is the video recorder. Somehow when bullies are shown actually performing their bullying, justice does waggle its slow stupid head in that direction and take action.
    Hmm... "Lets do surveillance on each other".
    I know what you mean, and I agree to a certain extent, but somehow those things can get out of hand. It would turn children into watchmen when they grow older. Seeing the power of surveillance.
    Or maybe i'm just barmy..

    Leave a comment:


  • Miqque
    replied
    Sticky wicket. What do we do about bullies? Where do they come from?

    Not far from here is the infamous Columbine High School (lots of things named for the state flower, the columbine). This was the ultimate bad solution to bullies; namely, shoot 'em. Then there's the classical American Educational System approach; ignore the fact that bullies exist. Also bad.

    Psychological thought has centered on bullies being kids who were themselves bullied and thus became abusers (let's call it what it is) in a Stockhom syndrome-type scenario. Others speak of neglect, others as witnesses of bullying or abuse in the home (violence as an answer). My own thoughts are that bullies have found that the extent of their abilities to influence the real world roots in using violence on the weak. This is why bullies tend to have very small social circles (mostly of those who hide behind bullies, cowards of the first order), are mean-spirited, have little insight, and are interpreted as frightened individuals overcompensating for their shortcomings.

    The bully syndrome in politics is often played out at a covert or tacit level. Leverage for votes is more often used than guns in an alley. However, when we get a firecracker reaction (as from the hothead that started this thread) I tend to think more about lack of anger management and severe lack of communication skills.

    I think the current answer to bullies is the video recorder. Somehow when bullies are shown actually performing their bullying, justice does waggle its slow stupid head in that direction and take action.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theocrat
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc
    Does Adorno have an agenda, as the reviewers suggest? Of course. Every academic work does. This is not Marxism, however, nor does it have a Marxist agenda.
    Is it a tough read? Or is it smooth and relatively easy to digest?

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Theocrat
    Originally posted by Doc
    The most famous sociological examination of the broad topic is The Authoritarian Personality by Adorno, which is a critical examination of cultures of authoritarianism. Adorno was part of the Frankfort School, most of whom were German Jews, displaced by Naz*ism and disappointed by Marxism.
    Do you recommend this book? Because it has got a rather bad reviews at Amazon?

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books
    I agree with the one reviewer who dismissed the other reviewers.

    I'll start by saying I don't agree with everything in it, and I find it flawed in some ways. However, as an introduction to a set of ideas, and as a commentary and cautionary on the dangers of authoritarianism and what it creates is interesting, at least, and quite profound at best.

    Does Adorno have an agenda, as the reviewers suggest? Of course. Every academic work does. This is not Marxism, however, nor does it have a Marxist agenda.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theocrat
    replied
    Originally posted by TheAdlerian
    I guess that if you just stop cooperating with them. Of course then that might transfor you into the alpha and it all starts again!
    Eeek!

    Well.. Maybe you could say that these things are just a 'phase' that kids go through?

    And I think it's how the alpha deals with his 'power' situation.
    But will kids go for the 'nice guy' or the 'cool bad guy'?

    Leave a comment:


  • Theocrat
    replied
    Originally posted by TheAdlerian
    The crazy thing about a false sense of entitlement is that it may not be false if you keep getting away with it. People go along with bullies and give them the de facto right to do what they do, so what is the bully’s incentive to quit. It’s weird.
    So what is the best to defeat a bully. Show him for the insecure person
    he is? Or what?

    Leave a comment:


  • Theocrat
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc
    The most famous sociological examination of the broad topic is The Authoritarian Personality by Adorno, which is a critical examination of cultures of authoritarianism. Adorno was part of the Frankfort School, most of whom were German Jews, displaced by Naz*ism and disappointed by Marxism.
    Do you recommend this book? Because it has got a rather bad reviews at Amazon?

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    The most famous sociological examination of the broad topic is The Authoritarian Personality by Adorno, which is a critical examination of cultures of authoritarianism. Adorno was part of the Frankfort School, most of whom were German Jews, displaced by Naz*ism and disappointed by Marxism.

    More contemporary scholars have studied bullying in many contexts. Not surprisingly, most have found that children who are bullies remain bullies as adults. One of the most interesting articles I've read lately was on workplace bullies. These people have a false sense of entitlement backed by years of getting away with, essentially, bullying.

    There are also loads of articles that find bullies to have low self-esteem and low self-efficacy, along with inconsistent self-concepts.

    Mostly, it seems, bullies are created as children. They embrace that aspect of who they are and act on it until it really becomes, more holistically, who they are. Bullying becomes the basis for most of their social interaction.

    Sounds suspiciously like two prominent pliticians from Texas.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theocrat
    replied
    Originally posted by TheAdlerian
    Sure! Any thoughts from the would of Soc about what people like bullies and or aggressive leaders.
    It's really strange that thing about bullies. Not that it happens but what it does to you. Either watching or participating. I felt sometime that i had to turn into one just to be accepted for some weird reason..

    Bully or be bullied was what i felt, it brings silent shame to you later in life.. I had a rough class.. And even i was bullied or rather 'ostracized' for just being different and mostly dreamy.

    Good thing i had those geeky friends from other classes..

    I meet some people I had bullied or beaten a little as a kid (just one or two people I know of). And i don't really bring it up to them but i respect them for pulling through anyway. If they would talk about it i wouldn't know what to say really? I would definitely say it was wrong and i felt sorry about it. But I couldn't really explain why it happened?

    Leave a comment:


  • Theocrat
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc
    I like to think it makes us strong people, instead.
    Definetly! I've gotten alot of help not just from Mike but from you all!
    Thanks!

    I'd like to say that this is our 'Round Table'..

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by TheAdlerian
    Meanwhile, I am happy to admire a nice talented guy like Mr. M. I don't think that that makes me a weak person or anything.
    :D

    I like to think it makes us strong people, instead.

    Leave a comment:

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