Dangerous SOB

[Miqque]

News out of Washington (much better reported on the Beeb, 'cause all we get told here is that it snowed and the Pope is still dead) is that a fellow by the name of John R. Bolton is undergoing confirmation hearings to be US Ambassador to the UN. Well, at best he's been called a "serial abuser" of his underlings, tends to yell a lot, and has been described as a "kiss-up, kick-down sort of guy." (Quotes from current AP article.)

Now, I've been reading the Left Behind series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, which is a delight to Christians and no doubt too long, annoying and secular for others. Most of the first two books concern the author's version of AntiChrist coming to power. They name him Nicolae Carpathia, but the son of Belial (SOB) up for ambassadorship seems to fit all too closely to the pattern described by the Left Behind authors for my liking.

How is it that these horribly bad managers always seem to rise to the top in politics? I guess it's kinda like how the brown poopies float in a cesspool, but it sure does stink mightily from the outside.

Are you aware of or interested in this, Mike?

[Whiskers]

This kind of post should be made in the Reasoned Debate forum, if you don't mind.

[invalid nickname]

Re: Dangerous SOB

How is it that these horribly bad managers always seem to rise to the top in politics? I guess it's kinda like how the brown poopies float in a cesspool, but it sure does stink mightily from the outside.

Politics is like pond life, the scum always floats to the top.

[Whiskers]

People are apes. Apes love the alpha male, amd that's what most of us like too.

It's never useful to over generalize. People are humans, by the way. Speaking for myself, I'm more impressed by the male or female who can pay me a fair wage than I am with the male with the biggest balls and who can execute the most violence.

Thank you. Drive through.

[L'Etranger]

Bossy people also create or nurture aggressions in the others, so sending such a person into this particular ring - the UN - always is clearly a deliberate message and not a coincidence! It would read, more or less: "We are not interested in exchange of ideas and debate! We don't give a F* for your little worries. You're either with us or against us, as always!"

[Whiskers]

We are on a tribute site to a man after all!

Wrong context. This doesn't support your argument at all.

[L'Etranger]

[quote="TheAdlerian"] Usually, we don't create tributes to wimpy people that don't stand out.
/quote]

Why the hell don't we? High time we did pay tribute to the "unkown man" to whom it doesn't occur to oppress others, who doesn't want to bully or exploit the rest of the world!

[Doc]

I'll argue that being human distinguishes us from the whole alpha male, follow the leader crap. (I would also refer to humanity, humanism, and humane as merely words, which I think also make my point). But that is probably a subject for a different thread.

On point with this thread, Bush has just shown his utmost contempt for the UN, what it stands for, and what it can do. I don't want to underplay my contempt for him as a weasel of a man-- he's shown in his diplomatic (and I use that term very loosely) appointments how heavy handed he is, and how little he cares for people who work under him, or even the rule of law in some cases. What is more important to me, in a way, is that this is a person who has essentially said that the UN is irrelevant, except as a U.S. puppet. So much (again) for all of that "I'm a uniter--not a divider" crap that Bush puts out.

However, shouldn't we expect this? Our new Attorney General wrote memos trying to fundamentally alter (conveniently) international laws on torture. One of the architects of a miserable war plan is elevated to Secretary of State. I can go on, of course. My point is that this administration seems to care little for context or fit. They have a giant hammer, so square pegs adapt quite nicely to round holes. Worse, people defend such actions, and even celebrate them. Frightening.

[Miqque]

This kind of post should be made in the Reasoned Debate forum, if you don't mind.

Sure, Berry. No problem. Put it anywhere that's appropriate! (I tend to just log on to the Q&A as i have limited time at the library.)
8)

[Miqque]

Doc- What I find funny (in the funny/odd sense) is that Bush the First seemed to support the UN with his New World Order / 'thousand points of light' mumbo-jumbo (has 'mumbo-jumbo' become non-PC, BTW?). Meanwhile George II seems to have the oddest sense of 'alliances' Ive ever seen.

For example, we're cooperating with Russia and other countries on Space Station One (called 'Alpha') and launching from Baikonur since we tend to explode out own booster rockets. (Discovery won't be launched until May, is what I think I heard). Russia and Germany are cooperating on other endeavors, particularly when it comes to oil and energy production. But George II cut Germany off at the knees when it came to contracts to rebuild Iraq (along with other countries). So Russia and US are allied in some areas, competitive in others. US and Germany are mostly hostile again. Germany and France can't stand each other, yet imitate each other in styles and trends. Russia is desperately working to feed and provide wall juice for itself, whilst fending off their own version of the Mafia (and no doubt big business).

Overall, things are a mess and make for a confusing picture. George II's solution? Throw a mean-spirited man into the mix.

I just dunno...
:roll:

[Whiskers]

My comment was just that humans seem to like bosses and experts. Most of us agree to have one or work for one. It's all very monkey if you ask me. Anyway, if humans did not want bosses then they would either refuse or laugh at the situation.

I feel it is more complex than your over simplification.

You've cited multiverse.org as an alpha male kind of society, but in case you've changed your position, let's discuss Bill the Cat's involvement with Deathtأ¶ngue, a heavy metal band. So, a small group of people in a collaborative environment found two alpha males among them, Steve Dallas and Bill the Cat. That's what you're talking about, as far as I'm concerned, and not most everyone can be poured into the same glass.

Now, you have a challenge on your hands. Such narrowmindedness can in no way explain how The Internet works. It cannot account for match.com, ebay.com, friendster.com and other socially oriented websites that pull in hundreds of thousands of members and anonymous visitors WITHOUT the need for an alpha anything. There are untold alphaless societies that exist digitally on The Internet which shatter your arguments. Oh, and they live in peace. Unless you've met the person you are communicating with in person, you cannot be certain that they are who they say they are. In the case of MJM, it has been corroborated by memebers of the site, but even new people cannot be certain, as all of the corroboration is buried in the search engine and even those source could be legitimately doubted. With that in mind, the best you can do on The Internet is a faux alpha.

To help you out: you could now argue that the person who owns the domain name as in match.com is the alpha. I'd then reply, "what if a corportation owns the domain name?" and you'd argue that the CEO of the Corp is the alpha." I'd say, "what about the shareholders?" and you'd say, they are a bunch of monkies. I'd suggest at that point that you were reaching.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

[Mikey_C]

Certainly, there are aspects of life that do not have the alpha male domination, but how important are they? Are these activities merely not important enough to attract an alpha?

Eeeek! What a bleak view of the world! Are we not merely glorifying the workplace bully here? The opposite of a macho manager is not a wimp! There is a type of authority that comes from having respect for the strengths of others and the ability to help them have faith in their own best abilities, and the opposite is a form of terrorism that comes from undermining others because ultimately you feel threatened by them and have to shore up your own fragile ego with the external trappings of power. It's armed wimpishness! And socially dysfunctional to boot.

And what is this alpha business, anyway? Something to do with dogs! They do all sorts of things that are not reccomended for humans. Like sniffing shit and rolling in dead animals. Yuk! :x

(Me, I'm a cat person )

[Pietro_Mercurios]

...

And what is this alpha business, anyway? Something to do with dogs! They do all sorts of things that are not reccomended for humans. Like sniffing shit and rolling in dead animals. Yuk! :x

...

I always wondered why so many businessmen and politicians made such fequent use of prostitutes and brothels! 8O

[Theocrat]

People are apes. Apes love the alpha male, amd that's what most of us like too.

But don't Chimpanzee's strike deals to get ridd of any annoying leader thats too aggressive or uncaring about them.

Maybe there are 'communist' monkey's out there? :lol:
I'll spread the handsign version of the 'manifesto' to intelligent apes.
It would be funny to see a plan economy evolve in the jungle..
Imagining apes standing in line for only one banana..
Well.. Maybe not!

So don't the apes sometimes hate the alpha male?

[Theocrat]

...

And what is this alpha business, anyway? Something to do with dogs! They do all sorts of things that are not reccomended for humans. Like sniffing shit and rolling in dead animals. Yuk! :x

...

I always wondered why so many businessmen and politicians made such fequent use of prostitutes and brothels! 8O

Because a 'quicky' fits in their schedule? :lol: