Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to Moorcock's Miscellany

Dear reader,

Many people have given their valuable time to create a website for the pleasure of posing questions to Michael Moorcock, meeting people from around the world, and mining the site for information. Please follow one of the links above to learn more about the site.

Thank you,
Reinart der Fuchs
See more
See less

Smoking dope

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Smoking dope

    No, I'm not asking about your personal experiences...

    Perhaps this would fit better in Reasoned Debate, but I'm also interested in Mike's position on this.

    I'm a bit concerned that few people are talking about W's admission of drug use. Many of the same people who demonized Clinton and Gore for smoking pot have ignored Bush's experiences.

    Worse, some have framed Bush as either a victim or a hero, pointing out how Bush has so graciously dealt with betrayal by a trusted associate. And Linda Tripp was a hero for what she taped?

    I'm interested in what people think. I think my feelings are relatively clear :D

  • #2
    Yeah, I thought about adding this topic to my 'Hypocrisy' thread over in Reasoned Debate.

    It's just another fine example of the Great American Double-Standard.
    "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
    --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TheAdlerian
      The thing about Bush is that he has the religious angle on his side. Whether it is real or not is a different story, but it allows one to pass anything off as long as one has regrets. So, Clinton smokes pot and lies about it while Bush smokes and makes peace with his creator about it.
      Well said! By the way, Bush has to make peace for much more than that...


      Originally posted by TheAdlerian
      This of course is yet another sign that things are Fucked Up.
      Ironically, I want to give that an "Amen!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
        Yeah, I thought about adding this topic to my 'Hypocrisy' thread over in Reasoned Debate.

        It's just another fine example of the Great American Double-Standard.
        I agree.

        Just 'Politics as Usual.'
        Madness is always the best armor against Reality

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TheAdlerian
          The thing about Bush is that he has the religious angle on his side. Whether it is real or not is a different story, but it allows one to pass anything off as long as one has regrets. So, Clinton smokes pot and lies about it while Bush smokes and makes peace with his creator about it. If we imagine that god is real for a second, and Bush believes in him, then I think that we can see that Bush is on the right track regarding how to handle human failings. An atheist is kind of stuck with handling ethical problems by themselves and I’m sure that they generally suffer a little more than the average religious person. If Bush and company really don’t believe, then the religious angle is the ultimate spin, as it is both an appeal to and a resolution from a nonexistent super-authority.

          I think that Clinton and Bush are perceived as coming from two different philosophical camps. One is secular and one is quasi-religious. So, I think that the public perception of accountability is different for men. This of course is yet another sign that things are Fucked Up.
          brilliant post.

          Comment


          • #6
            "Ah used to be messed up on drugs - now ah'm messed up on .... THE LORD!"

            Religion does allow repentance. Atheists are just stuck with their miserable selves. Perhaps this might lead to them making more effort - contrary to the claims of the religious. I don't know. Sounds good though!
            \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TheAdlerian
              If we imagine that god is real for a second, and Bush believes in him, then I think that we can see that Bush is on the right track regarding how to handle human failings.
              Oh, they're real. I'm not completely sure about Bush, say about 85%, but God is ahead of him of around 87%. We still take bettings. Wait a min, Bush is running up towards the line... yes, I believe he will pass as real, but God is close behind him... we can see the air crystallizing beneath God's nostrils right now... and here comes the winner...: Fiedelbaum.
              "If the environment were a bank, we would already have saved it." -Graffitti.

              Comment


              • #8
                Wasn't George W. supposed to have had a coke (not the soda) habit?
                Mirror.co.UK
                BUSH 'TOOK COCAINE AT CAMP DAVID'

                Sep 6 2004

                And wife Laura liked dope, says book

                By Emma Pryer


                GEORGE W Bush snorted cocaine at Camp David, a new book claims.

                His wife Laura also allegedly tried cannabis in her youth.

                Author Kitty Kelley says in her biography The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty, that the US President first used coke at university in the mid-1960s.

                She quotes his former sister-in-law Sharon Bush who claims: "Bush did coke at Camp David when his father was President, and not just once either."

                Other acquaintances allege that as a 26-year-old National Guard, Bush "liked to sneak out back for a joint or into the bathroom for a line of cocaine".

                Bush has admitted being an alcoholic but, asked during the 1999 election if he did drugs, he said: "I've told the American people that years ago I made some mistakes.

                "I've learned from my mistakes and should I be fortunate enough to become president I will bring dignity and honour to the office."

                Later an aide clarified his remarks saying Bush hadn't taken illegal drugs in the past 25 years.

                Kelley says that the Bush family covered up scandals because of their wealth and influence. She claims George W started drinking at school and continued at Yale university to overcome shyness.

                Former student Torbery George says in the book: "Poor Georgie. He couldn't relate to women unless he was loaded."

                Another says: "He went out of his way to act crude. It's amazing someone you held in such low esteem later became president."

                His supporters have slammed the allegations as outrageous.

                The White House said: "This book appears to be filled with the same trash discredited years ago."

                http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache...&hl=en&start=2
                [Taken from the cached version, on Google.]

                Comment


                • #9
                  The coke habit was part of his "indiscretions of my youth" disclaimer in his first presidential campaign. Along with his DWI. And the fact that he was in his mid- to late 30s at the time of his adventures with blow, which isn't exactly what I call youthful (at least when used as an excuse for indiscretions).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well I can tell you if you have ANY kind of drug conviction or arrest in your police record, you are essentially barred from emmigrating to the US. You can do it - but it requires legal assistance, a lot of money and a long wait for approval.

                    There are even people who (stupidly) admitting to trying a spliff once at a college party - and were denied for the admission.

                    It is an insane double standard that they do this to keep millions of otherwise law abiding people out of the country, but if you're running for the highest office in the land those sorts of indescretions can be quietly swept under the carpet and ignored.
                    Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

                    Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I guess GWB's cocaine snorting days add just another character flaw to a man with more than his share of them, but who pretends to be whiter than white.

                      I wonder if all those people who voted for him for his 'moral' stands would have felt the same way had they known about his 'wild past'.

                      Still salute the office not the man. I see nothing to respect in GWB - the guy is a disaster. More than that he has the 'reverse Midas touch'. Everything he touches turns to sh1t.
                      Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

                      Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I like people that have been very immoral at times but decided to adopt some ethics. Frankly, I think that this appeals to many religious people as well. The dramatic idea of a sinner finding salvation is very powerful.
                        Redemption sells I guess... I agree with you, though I think its something thats open to interpretation.

                        Of course if we're talking about drug use here, I think its arguable whether you could say that recreational drug use is actually immoral. I've known many people who enjoy the odd puff of marijuana and see nothing wrong with it. I certainly don't - anymore than anyone else who chooses to smoke cigarettes.

                        What I find disturbing about politicians is that they often alter their moral values to fit those of their electorate. Hence Mr Bush appealed to all those christian neocons who chose to vote for him because he took a certain stand on abortion, capital punishment, stem cell research and the like. Does it mean he really takes that particular stand on any of those issues? I don't know....

                        Its very different say, to someone who killed someone on a DUI, and now (haunted by guilt) dedicates their life to charity. That kind of redemption I can believe in - rather than the wholesale prostition of morality that goes on in politics.
                        Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

                        Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My largest problem with Bush isn't the redemption. Good for him, and for anyone else who overcomes their problems.

                          My problem is the sanctimony of his "morality"-- except as it relates to his own moral failings, which he refuses to admit until someone else uncovers them. Glass houses and all of that.

                          Sadly, his house seems to be made of bulletproof glass.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think smoking dope is one of the very few things Bush has done that he needn't feel guilty about!
                            \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think smoking dope is one of the very few things Bush has done that he needn't feel guilty about!
                              Well perhaps he'll take a shine to some nice young intern, and the 'moralists' who voted for him will have their faith challenged in a way that the thousands dead in Iraq has so far failed to do for them.
                              Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

                              Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X