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Harry The Nazi

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mikey_C
    Originally posted by devilchicken
    In some ways they're just as bad as some of the people down at the dole office - abusing the benefits system.
    You'd have a hard job getting away with this these days. 'Trainspotting' gave away some of the techniques you'd have to perfect.

    I did it for 6 years when it was easy, in the '80s. I figured that if Thatcher was determined to inflict mass unemployment on the nation as a means of curing its economic ills, then it might as well be people who enjoyed it. I thought that the workers should be buying me free drinks for letting someone else who really needed it have my job. Of course, that was no good - you had to unemployed and miserable as well. Apart from the miners, nothing was more subversive than the happy unemployed. Which is why exactly the same techniques of police brutality was needed to smash up the 'peace convoy' at the beanfield on the way to Stonehenge festival as was used on our brothers at Orgreave. I, for one, won't forget this.

    I see the point you're making, by the way, but perhaps it needs qualifying just a bit.
    Go to WWW.sinnfeinbookshop. com they do a great "I still hate Thatcher" T-shirt. Apart from the words there's nothing overtly republican about it.
    Arioch, aid me! Blood and souls for Arioch!

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    • #32
      Huxley's The Perennial Philosophy is the book I usually recommend, since Huxley goes for the positive point of the myths, arguing that there are certain spiritual truths which keep coming up in the mouths and deeds of perennial myth figures. He doesn't argue against Christianity, just sees it in its historical context. Meant a lot to me, that book, when I was a lad.
      I think there's truth in what you suggest, Ad -- maybe that's why Arab Moslems are even more anti-Jewish than European Christians.
      Anti-semitism, as Martin Gilbert points out in Letters to Auntie Fori, didn't exist in China or India, at least not until the Catholic missionaries arrived. In fact in China Jews are still highly regarded as the Westerners almost as smart and worthy as the Chinese... There ARE colonies of Jewish believers in China and India, incidentally.

      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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      • #33
        Could there be some significance in the fact that Prince Harry apparently chose to go to a 'Colonials and Natives' themed party, weird enough in itself, as The Desert Fox, Field Marshall Erwin Rommel, of the Afrika Korp, according to Belgian and German tv news, amongst other sources?
        Spartacus Schoolnet UK: Erwin Rommel
        ...

        In the early months 1944 Rommel was approached by Ludwig Beck and Carl Goerdeler about joining the July Plot. Rommel refused, criticising the tactic of assassination claiming that it would turn Adolf Hitler into a martyr. Instead he suggested that he should be arrested and brought to trial.

        Rommel was now sent to head the German Army in France that was preparing for the Allied invasion. Unable to halt the Allied troops during Operation Overlord, on 15th July, 1944, Rommel warned Hitler that Germany was on the verge of defeat and encouraged him to bring the war to an end.

        In the summer of 1944 Rommel was approached about joining the July Plot. He refused, criticising the tactic of assassination claiming that it would turn Adolf Hitler into a martyr. Instead he suggested that he should be arrested and brought to trial.

        In the autumn of 1944 Hitler discovered that Rommel was plotting against him. On 14th October, 1944, Rommel was visited by two generals who had been sent by Hitler with an ultimatum: suicide with a state funeral and protection for his family and staff, or trial for high treason. Erwin Rommel took poison and officially it was stated that he had died of a brain seizure.
        There is something disturbing about the choice of a Nazi Afrika Korp disguise, considering the amount of time he has spent out in various parts of Africa, doing highly publicised good works for charitee. Was it really some weird Oedipal-Hamletian act of youthful rebellion? What can it all mean?

        Perhaps he really is his mother's son?

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        • #34
          I gather that Rommel had a lot of respect among the Allies, not that that's an excuse. I suppose PH does come from a dysfunctional family, though.

          Oedipus. He was one weird motherfucker... :lol:
          \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

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          • #35
            About what

            Well, i think that i see things differently, maybe because im not from europe, my family did not take part in war and i study it all from a distance, and it does not affect me personally. I beg that you guys dont get mad at me and start trying to put me on fire, but i think some might get pissed off-

            first of all, i have to confess that i am indeed a little bit racist (but not in the common use of the word - i believe that there exists differences between 'races', and that they should be well used - but i know what that would imply, more trouble than help, and for now, it would be disastrous. And also, i dont think one is better than the other, i just believe that they are different. Furthermore, being Brasilian, there is NO WAY i think -as a lot of ignorant ones down here do) that i am ARYAN, or PURE.)

            Well, that being stated, it is clear that my view of hitler's quest is different from many others, that think that there are no racial differences. I dont say he is in the right, but that it is not insane to believe that you are better. ANd for me, he is EXACTLY like Ghengis or Attila. They all wanted the WORLD, power, and their people ruling the world. Ghengis Khan means "UNIVERSAL RULER", and he was indeed a most EVIL individual, worst than hitler, thats for sure - he used to say that he was a divine envoy, destined to rule all that lived. And that "Happiness lies in conquering ones enemy, in driving him in front of one self, in savouring their despair, in taking their property and outraging his wives and daughters". How 'eviler' can you get? and if you go to russia, or asia all around, they will say He was the horror from the plains, the devil himself, far worst than any other - because some places still have his mark- he destroyed and burned many cities.
            Even though he did all that and is a monster, there is no problem in dressing up like him, or composing a song praising the guy (British IRON MAIDEN - their debut album, i think.) ANd so, some might see Hitler and the nazi as some may see ghengis - not see his marks, dont feel him, just see him - and i think SS coats are pretty neat, their military organization was pretty cool and their arrogant semblant falls perfectly into the battlefield. It does not justify killing jews, but then again, if killing nazis is ok, maybe killing jews is too, because of what they do in Israel. I guess it is just what kind of info we get. The media is always trying to make us THINK like they want to, and most people do. Maybe if i went to all those museums and stuff, i would hate nazis and be shocked, but i dont. What we do know here, is -for example- when brazil got its independance FROM PORTUGAL, we had to pay an extreme sum of money to ENGLAND. And from the very first free days of my country, we were already poor because we had to pay for those greedy british fellows (hehehe)
            Argentinians also feel very pissed off about england and many are those who like nazis because they killed englishmen, just as englishmen killed argentinians. Paraguai is also very agravated because they really think they would be a force in the world had not England sponsored Brazil to kill 70 percent of their male population. What i try to prove is that even though british are not hateful creatures that deserve to be abolished (i really like you guys!), there are many that believe you should be banished from the world for what you have done to them - and see nothing wrong with nazis.
            Get it?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: About what

              Originally posted by Hans von Hammer
              ... What i try to prove is that even though british are not hateful creatures that deserve to be abolished (i really like you guys!), there are many that believe you should be banished from the world for what you have done to them - and see nothing wrong with nazis.
              Get it?
              We should think ourselves lucky that this isn't some PKD 'Man In The High Castle' alternative Axis Powers reality. The difference between the World as it is now and as it might have been, if the Axis Powers had won, is that such groups, as mentioned above, would not be around to whine about the iniquities of the past. They and their fellows would simply have been expunged from history.

              Comment


              • #37
                I have frequently noted a disgusting naivete in Latin America re. H.itler. He and the Nazis are often viewed as those who challenged the Anglo-US domination - which is a lot more "real" in that hemisphere. "El enemigo principal" - the main villain - is the Yanqui. During WW2 many states were more or less forced into declaring war against Nazi Germany, and at least one country didn't do so, maybe Chile.
                As the Jews are concerned even today they are eyed with great suspicion and often hated. The clergy that went to South America with the conquerors and settlers in the 16th, 17th and later centuries brought with them an extremely narrow-minded, unenlightened "Weltbild" in which "The Jew" was the arch-villain. Humanistic developments that took place in the Old World had no or little impact. Even the independence struggles in most countries led only to new dictatorial-like states with "Caudillos" at the top and clergy around them of the most vile kind, but not to more liberal societies.
                If you live in a world where problematic people were traditionally wiped out (ask, for example, the remaining Mapuche tribe in Argentina about the 19th century campaigns to exterminate them, or workers in Colombia, or jungle-dwelling Indian natives simply in the "way of development") it probably seems rather normal that the Nazis tried the same with the Jews ...who, after all, killed the Saviour ... and probably imported the plague and, and, and ...

                A friend from Buenos Aires, a cameraman, told me one day he'd rather live and work in Germany than in Argentina with the surname he held: Israel ...!

                ------
                But one thing, Hans - is there really a possibility to consider yourself being ARYAN in your circles? Not simply "white" or "of european stock"? If so then I daresay that the ultra-right propaganda is working very successfully and has settled worrisomely deep people's cerebral layers.
                Google ergo sum

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by devilchicken
                  William isn't actually that much better - the other week he attended one of the last 'legal' foxhunts. Just goes to show how much of a divide there is between these people and the general public.
                  Actually, you're completely incorrect on this one. The pro/anti-foxhunting divide has nothing to do with class. Actually, it's a town/country dispute, with the urban population, who control most of parliament (most urban seats have half the voters of rural seats), attempting to impose their own short-sighted values on the countryfolk, and in doing so are threatening the livelyhoods of all those involved in the hunting industry, not to mention the lives of the dogs - although I believe that most of the major hunts are going to ignore the new laws, fortunately. As such, to attend a foxhunt is to show sympathy with almost half the population of England.

                  To return to the topic at hand, possibly the most worrying thing I've seen all year was when Sacha Baron Cohen, on his 'Borat' show, manouvered almost an entire bar in the American midwest to sing along with a song the main refrain of which was "throw the Jew down a well, and set my country free". Worse yet, none of the listeners seemed to show any concern whatsoever over this.

                  Hmmm... doesn't Lord Bath at Longleat possess a more-or-less complete collection of Hitler's paintings?

                  As for anti-semitism, the obvious reason seems to be that the Jews, as well as being close-knit and culturally different (in much the same way as Muslims are in Britain today), also had, in Medieval and Early Modern times, a virtual monopoly on banking and money-lending. As such, they were a culturally-distinct, almost-defenceless community of extremely rich people. Who do the proles most hate? Rich bastards and foreigners, that's who! Also, since the Jews were money-lenders, we also get a large pool of resentful debtors. From a base like that, things can only get worse.

                  Interestingly, while the Spaniards and the like were persecuting the Jews on religious grounds, Edward I of England kicked 'em out purely because he owed them too much money to repay.
                  Arma virumque cano.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Kalessin
                    Originally posted by devilchicken
                    William isn't actually that much better - the other week he attended one of the last 'legal' foxhunts. Just goes to show how much of a divide there is between these people and the general public.
                    Actually, you're completely incorrect on this one. The pro/anti-foxhunting divide has nothing to do with class. Actually, it's a town/country dispute, with the urban population, who control most of parliament (most urban seats have half the voters of rural seats), attempting to impose their own short-sighted values on the countryfolk, and in doing so are threatening the livelyhoods of all those involved in the hunting industry, not to mention the lives of the dogs - although I believe that most of the major hunts are going to ignore the new laws, fortunately. As such, to attend a foxhunt is to show sympathy with almost half the population of England.

                    ...
                    :lol: :ROFL:

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Disturbing

                      There have been many evil men in this world, and many normally civilized nations have committed acts of unmitigated evil in the world, and one must be careful how they use something so dangerously symbolic when the memories are still fresh. It is true, someone dressing of as NKVD would not get the same reaction as someone dressing as Waffen SS, and that's a fault of education I believe. One can make safe fun of people like the Nazis, but it must be done with some discretion, even at a Bad Taste Party.

                      And Hans, saying that if it's okay to kill Nazis then it's okay to kill Jews sounds terribly ignorant. The Nazis were killed in declared war, and as grusome and nasty as war is killing is expected there. But imprisoning, enslaving, and then murdering an entire race is NOT the same thing, and one can point at Israel and complain all day, but do not feel for a second that the blame is all theirs. The way Arabs are educated in most schools in the Middle East only promotes violence towards Jews and their "Zionist puppets".

                      And the views of S. America are often suspect, especially in Argentina, since it became such a haven for Nazi war criminals. I'm rarely surprised by Nazi apologism coming from a South America, I've heard it enough in my time. But many others worldwide from numerous nations have been guilty of this.

                      And if we want to be completely accurate in identifying evil, we must realize that evil has come to many nations through time; Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Russia, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Turkey, Japan, and the U.S... each has had a terrible history at one time or another, and though the Nazis were indeed evil, they too shall pass. It's just not time yet I think.

                      A nation is never inherently evil, but a nation can be absorbed by evil for a time. And it takes time for the scars to heal.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Kalessin
                        The pro/anti-foxhunting divide has nothing to do with class. Actually, it's a town/country dispute, with the urban population, who control most of parliament (most urban seats have half the voters of rural seats), attempting to impose their own short-sighted values on the countryfolk...
                        A total red herring put about by the Countryside Alliance, this one. My family have lived in the country - a large proportion of the people there hate the hunt: would you like to see your pet cat savaged to death by the hounds on your lawn? Likewise - a great many city toffs are keen to jump in their 4WDs and play the squire among forelock-tugging serfs for the weekend.

                        So, as there's no way it can be about animal welfare (it would surely come way down the list after factory farming and vivisection) it must be about class. It's one way Blair can ingratiate himself with his back bench MPs and 'core' voters without actually having to do anything to affect the status quo. As that chap who was forced to resign from the BBC pointed out - watching the appalling spectacle of the Countryside Alliance on the march is enough to remind anyone of why they voted Labour.

                        As a side-point - if it's not about class, how come all the quaint 'working class' country sports such as badger-baiting and cockfighting were banned aeons ago?

                        Originally posted by L'Etranger
                        I have frequently noted a disgusting naivete in Latin America re. H.itler. He and the Nazis are often viewed as those who challenged the Anglo-US domination - which is a lot more "real" in that hemisphere.
                        An error made nearer to home:
                        Statue of Nazi ally vandalised Henry McDonald
                        Sunday January 2, 2005
                        The Observer

                        An unnamed group in Dublin claimed responsibility last night for vandalising the statue of an IRA leader linked to the Nazis in the Second World War.

                        The group said it had severed the head and right arm of the statue in Dublin's Fairview Park in memory of the victims of the Holocaust.

                        They said that as Europe prepares to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi death camps, they could no longer tolerate a statue in honour of Sean Russell.

                        Russell was commanding officer of the IRA during the Second World War and conducted a campaign of assassination and sabotage in both Britain and Ireland, aimed at damaging the war effort against Hitler.

                        Although an open ally of the Nazis, Russell is still honoured by the modern IRA and Sinn Fein. In September 2003, Sinn Fein MEP Mary Lou McDonald spoke at a rally to commemorate Russell in the north Dublin park. The same rally was also addressed by veteran IRA man Brian Keenan.

                        In a statement released this weekend, the group claiming to be behind the attack on the statue said: 'Six million Jews, thousands of political dissidents, homosexuals, Roma people, Soviet prisoners of war and the disabled were put to death by the fascist hate machine that overran and terrified Europe from 1939 to 45.

                        'Sean Russell was one of many nationalist fanatics who looked to Hitler for political and military support in the IRA's quest to reunify Ireland at the point of the bayonets of the Gestapo.

                        'At the Wansee conference, the infamous Nazi gathering that planned the "Final Solution", the Jewish community in Ireland was marked down for annihilation. Having freed Ireland from British rule, the Nazis expected their collaborators to help them round up Dublin's Jews and ship them off to Auschwitz. That was the price Sean Russell was prepared to pay to end partition.'

                        It is understood the vandalism took place between late Thursday night and the early hours of New Year's Eve. There has been no sign of either the head or the arm of the statue.
                        More power to the Dublin statue-smashers!

                        Originally posted by Hans von Hammer
                        if killing nazis is ok, maybe killing jews is too, because of what they do in Israel
                        8O Isn't this hate-speech?
                        \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          to attend a foxhunt is to show sympathy with almost half the population of England.
                          I would seriously dispute that - I have NEVER met anyone who was pro hunting and I've been all over the UK. Its a far more minor issue than it is often made out to be - hardly the death of a entire industry, and I for one won't miss it.

                          Having 20 men on horseback charging blindly across the moor, horns blaring, dogs yipping doesn't seem too efficient a means of population control to me.

                          I think William's attendance of a hunt reveals more about his background and upbringing than any desire to represent rural issues. If he does have a sympathy for the rural economy - then I would suggest his time would be better spent campaigning for relaxing European farming laws, that have forced many small UK farmers into bankruptcy.

                          If you remember the Dunblane massacre back in 1995 - soon after the government announced plans to overhaul the gun laws, Prince Philip was on the air saying that if you ban guns, you might as well ban cricket bats - as someone could just as easily go into a school and beat a bunch of kids to death..

                          My point was simply why are we paying for people to represent us, who only represent a tiny portion of UK society. Certainly if those people, as Harry has proven don't know how to behave appropriately.

                          I'm not saying we abolish the monarchy - just reform it to separate those who do a good job in representing the british people, from the layabouts who just want the public to pay for their live of privileged excess....
                          Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

                          Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I note from my perusal of today's Sun (now there's an admission) that Harry has been ordered to Auschwitz along with William (who was in the fancy dress shop when the offending item was hired) - so part of my proposal has been taken up. Now whatever happened to Prince Edward's TV company?
                            \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              After mummy bailed him out a few times it went into liquidation I believe.
                              Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

                              Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I'd like to confirm that all the anti-hunt people I know are country people. We lived in Oxfordshire in a cottage attached to a farm. The farmer, who had many fowl taken by foxes, was furiously anti-hunt and when the hunt came over his land would rush out to protest and, where possible, block the hunt. His widow was equally anti-hunt and would turn up at our door to get help in blocking the path of hunt followers and, where possible, the hunt itself. I knew of nobody in the local pubs who approved of the hunt and only one or two who were neutral about it.
                                The 'Countryside Alliance' is about as representative of country people as the SWP is representative of urban workers. What I find obscene is Americans who have not only taken up the hunt because they associate it with English landed gentry but who even import red foxes into their countryside purely in order to hunt them. This really does show the hunting fraternity for what they are.
                                I believe that there is a strong public anti-monarchist feeling which ultimately must force the monarchy to modify. It's a difficult problem to manage politically -- for practical reasons and because there are no real precedents. Since constitutional monarchy is a pretty good system, with certain advantages over a purely republican system, I agree that the monarchy shouldn't be abolished, but I do believe it should be downsized and that only the head of state should receive a salary and a decent expense account, while all privately held lands and estates should be returned to 'the Crown' (i.e. the state). It would be interesting to read a debate about this possibility. One aside -- Rupert Murdoch and his newspapers have been anti-monarchist since Mr Murdoch failed to become a Sir Rupert. Baroness Thatcher couldn't get him one and Tony Blair can't get him one. Murdoch's papers broke the Nazi Harry story but Murdoch publishers papers whose policies are to support extreme right wing groups. The Weekly Standard, which employs David Frum (who wrote the 'axis of evil' speech) and other well-known far right neocons, is a Murdoch owned newspaper. Murdoch, like Blair and Bush, is a Born Again Christian. If Murdoch seeks to oust the monarchy in order to install an even more right wing 'Head of State' that's something we have to watch with considerable vigilance, just as Blair's dismantling of the House of Lords is suspiciously self-serving. We always have to remember that the Nazis were seen by many people at the time as progressive, young, dynamic, sweeping away old, corrupt institutions and bringing in modern methods and attitudes... They were praised for bringing a new sense of equality to Germany and getting rid of the old monarchist order. Ironic, since they had been supported by nationalists and monarchists in their rise to power. Many of those supporters wound up in Dachau, Belsen and similar institutions. I wonder if anyone is going to insist on giving the Blueblood Brothers a crash course in the subtleties and details of Nazi history. To take such a course might give Harry's 'apology' some meaning.

                                Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                                The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                                Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                                Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                                The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                                Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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