Overpopulation is this a serious problem or am I overeacting

[Anonymous]

Co-operation is as 'natural' as war and competition, of course. It's up to us which option we take. Philip Wylie in Generation of Vipers pointed out that it cost about the same to make peace as it did to make war. It was just easier to slip into war. He suggested we stop taking easy options. I suppose that's what I believe, too. Vipers has been discredited because of its description of American sentimentality as 'momism'. I think he got a raw deal. He still has much to say that's relevant to modern America. I think Generation was published in 1942. Wylie, for those who don't know, wrote Gladiator, which inspired Superman and When Worlds Collide, as well as some good movies and other sf titles. Anarcho-pacifists (left-liberationists) believe with Kropotkin that it is as natural for animals to co-operate for the general good as it is for them to fight.
Few animals fight in earnest between themselves and their 'violence' is reserved for their natural predatory means of survival, which, of course, rarely involves eating their own kind.

[Michael Moorcock]

That's me up there. I meant to add that the Chinese one child policy has really paid off for them. They regard this policy as being one of the big factors in their rising prosperity.

[Mikey_C]

I meant to add that the Chinese one child policy has really paid off for them. They regard this policy as being one of the big factors in their rising prosperity.

With some nasty consequences for female babies. It is true, though, however ruthless the Chinese government are, a lot of their policies work.

By the way folks - I don't know how much traffic the 'activism' forum gets - but I stuck up a post I think is very important - about the West Memphis 3: [broken link] This looks very much like the religious Right attacking us. False accusations of 'satanic murder' and the death sentence for reading Stephen King, wearing heavy metal t-shirts and having an interest in paganism... Blue Oyster Cult lyrics read out in court as evidence (that could be your words, Michael). Has anyone heard about this case before?

[Anonymous]

We are animals. Animals fight each other over territory and food and water, especially as it becomes scarce. So too do we. War is a natural fact of human existance and if we only had stick and stones, we'd still be waging war on one in another in some fashion. Might we evolve past it someday? Let's hope to whatever gods might exist that we do...

Sugar coated sentimentality. Do you think maybe the gods could, like, hurry the process up or something? People are dieing down here.

I'd hardly call pointing out that we are animals and do what we do because of evolution "sugar coated sentimetality". Do you just pinch phrases from Mr. M that you think sound cool?

I beg your pardon. You need to learn something about debating. I've read posts at this site where you accuse people of personal attacks against you. The personal attack you've just made against me seems to be the kind of comment that draws attacks against yourself and is of the nature you don't seem to like against yourself. I refuse to engage in the kind of personal attacks you have complained about before. But I will point this out: you have yet to offer a rational counter arguement to my 3 points. I'll thank you in the future to offer arguments and not personal insults. You should be ashamed. At least try to debate instead of resorting to non-argument based personal attacks. Aren't you the Demian Lackey who bandied threats of violence against Krunky and likewise? Name calling and so on? What's next, if you don't like my argument are you going to threaten me with violence?

I had expected some intelligent debate in this thread, but since the level seems to be tanking, I'll find another thread to spend my time in. I'm out of this one.

I never threatened Krunky with violence- it was a misunderstanting where I thought he made a threat on me and then he thought I was threatening him and it all degenerated into nastiness. I quite regret it to this day.

[Anonymous]

Btw, accusing me of "sugar coated..." etc was the first attack, as far as I can tell, if there were any attacks. But I apologize for my reply, it was out of line.

[Anonymous]

oh yeah, and don't leave the thread, I will.

[Michael Moorcock]

China could lead the world in legalising gay marriage and human cloning, maybe. But I don't think the urban population, at least, has too much of a problem re. female births. No doubt they're okay for the time being.
It's producing a well-educated middle-class which is less likely to tolerate the kind of repressive regime which created it. I still think we're living in a 50s sf writer's future -- Pohl and Kornbluth, Bester, Sheckley, Dick -- where advertising, branding and plutocracy are dominant in place of conventional politics.

[Michael Moorcock]

PS I hope you guys aren't going to come to blows over the issue of whether war is natural or unnatural. Or am I watching a clever demonstration of how temperate discussion is harder to achieve than barroom brawling ?

[Michael Moorcock]

Does that mean that self-discipline isn't natural ?

[Anonymous]

I apologize for my part. Sorry pards. I wasn't even trying to be insulting, I was joking around, but that doens't come off well on the net and I always forget that. I got on much better in person.

[xidrep]

I didn't think you were insulting, DL: perhaps it's the absence of body language and visual expression cues that makes people get the wrong idea? :? :) (Emoticons are useful but not as subtle...). Personally, I like a bit of robust debate. It's not much use getting affronted - see the 'Harry the Nazi' thread. If we get huffy with each other, here, what could we ever hope to achieve outside? Bugger all, that's what. :lol:

[Mikey_C]

Well, I think the "sugar-coated sentimentality" was uncalled for, so I wouldn't worry about it, DL.

By the way, sorry to be a nag, but doesn't anyone else think we should be concerned about the guy on death row for reading Stephen King and listening to BOC? Tell me to shut up about it, if you like...

[Hans von Hammer]

DEATH SENTENCE TO ME!

No, you are right! If that goes on, maybe i will be sentenced to torture-death-raisedead-tortureagain-deathagain.

Oh if they find my Stephen King- Hp Lovecraft Collection, my Black Sabbath-Thyrfing Cds and all my Azatru books, i'm way past dead.

[Anonymous]

Well at any rate, this little exchange lead to my IP being banned (apparently). Everytime I type in multiverse.org, I end up at "google". I'm not a computer wiz or anything, but it takes about 2 seconds to find ways around that thanks to the very site I was redirected to. I know I was on double secret probation for what happened with Krunky, but i've largely avoided such issues since then. There were some heated discussions around eleciton time, but shoot, I was having more heated discussions in the local bar than I was having here, and I'm still welcome there. Like I said, I guess I come off much better in person than I do in real life. I offered to leave the thread so F could feel "safe". I do want to point out that in this case, he attacked me first. He called my post disgusting, then accused me of 'sugar coated etc.'. I jokingly asked if he was pinching phrases from M, because I've heard Mr. M use that type of phrase before.

At any rate, I guess I won't be back around anymore. I respect Berry's decisions, even if I don't always agree with them. I'm not a PC person and I'm known to sometimes shoot off at the keyboard, so I know I'm bound to ruffle feathers, just like Bill used to (and Krunky). Krunky, if you are out there, i offer yet one more apology, because that incident really was a big misunderstanding. I now join you in exile.


Back to the topic, because i just let it get way off...

[Anonymous]

Amnesty! I call for an Amnesty! :)