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Overpopulation is this a serious problem or am I overeacting

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Berry Sizemore
    I find myself in that grey area where we're looking at hate, but can't quite justify nuking this image. Since it's not being used to promote hatred of people by the poster and is meant as an exhibit, I'm going to leave it up. If the context were different, say in the support of hatred or posting it is used to make someone here feel hated or the intent is obviously meant to promote hate, I'd delete it. But it disgusts me nonetheless. BTW, Howard Stearn have given air time to godhatesfags.com and they sound as ludicrous as their promotional material is.
    Wait a minute are you talking about my initial post here? I'm not saying we need to kill people to control the population. If that's the case I'm shocked that anyone should think that. When I said what's the solution I didn't mean the final solution or anything like that. I meant what we can do to control the population in a humane manner. For example China has a rule of one child per couple. I'm not saying that that's the solution but it is what one country has been forced to do to control their population. I'm just saying that people need to be aware that the population is on the way up and maybe they should think twice before they decide to have 10 kids or something. I mean Harrry Harrision wrote a book about the consequences of overpopulation called Make Room Make Room which was made into a movie Soylent Green. Do we realy wan't the earth to end up like that. Of cource that's an exreme example but I'm just saying people should be aware of the population explosion and that we should be discussing and trying to find a humane solution before it's too late. It's like when scientists discovered there was a hole in the ozone layer people stoped using aerosol. Maybe poeple need to start using birth control.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Mikey_C
      Originally posted by feuerfuchs
      Maybe someone can offer a rational argument that supports the following:

      (1) daisycutters are a force of nature
      (2) waves that drown children are holy
      (3) there was poverty before humans had economies
      (1) Well, ants squirt each other with formic acid. Is that natural?

      (2) Warning: This is shocking and offensive:



      (from http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/we...ement_1230.php)

      (3) You've got me there...
      Ok I'm hoping that this is what you found so offensive not my original post. I hadn't had time to read the whole thread but I was interested in seeing what Mike and Berry had to say so I went to the end of the thread and started scolling back then I saw this, sorry for any confusiion on my part.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by flutegirlrockz
        Originally posted by Berry Sizemore
        I find myself in that grey area where we're looking at hate, but can't quite justify nuking this image. ...
        Wait a minute are you talking about my initial post here? ...
        No. Berry was referring to an image of something posted further down the Thread. Berry was referring to the nature of the image itself and not to anyone's motives for posting it.

        ...

        Most 'experts' in population growth believe it might stabilize around 9,000,000,000 by 2050, if we're very lucky. The Earth's resources really are finite.

        Locking up the Pope, anti-abortionists, anti-contraceptionists and those that help keep the Third World in the sort of poverty that makes having large families the only option for a chance of at least some children surviving and going on to look after their parents, as a sort of social welfare, in their parent's old age: that all might help.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Perdix
          Sorry, DL, you posted just ahead of me - and made the same point more succintly and clearly than me! :D
          Yeah but yours was better written!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by feuerfuchs
            Originally posted by DL
            We are animals. Animals fight each other over territory and food and water, especially as it becomes scarce. So too do we. War is a natural fact of human existance and if we only had stick and stones, we'd still be waging war on one in another in some fashion. Might we evolve past it someday? Let's hope to whatever gods might exist that we do...
            Sugar coated sentimentality. Do you think maybe the gods could, like, hurry the process up or something? People are dieing down here.

            I'd hardly call pointing out that we are animals and do what we do because of evolution "sugar coated sentimetality". Do you just pinch phrases from Mr. M that you think sound cool?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by feuerfuchs
              Originally posted by Mikey_C
              Originally posted by feuerfuchs
              Maybe someone can offer a rational argument that supports the following:

              (1) daisycutters are a force of nature
              (2) waves that drown children are holy
              (3) there was poverty before humans had economies
              Originally posted by Mikey_C
              (1) Well, ants squirt each other with formic acid. Is that natural?
              Can they do that while they fly airplanes?

              Originally posted by Mikey_C
              (2) Warning: This is shocking and offensive:
              Was that a yes or a no?

              Instead of posting this offensive material, couldn't you just post a link to it?

              Okay, you are right, our current weapons of war are not "natural", but the fact of the matter is, we'd kill each other with our bare hands if that is all we had. Usage and development of tools is natural- we evolved those abilities over millions of years. So you know what, in a way, B1 bombers are a natural and logical extension of our tool making abilities...

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              • #37
                I'm more than happy to accept the general opinion as to whether I should have posted that flyer. Obviously I would expect everyone who views it here to be as offended as I am. As someone has noted, it is entirely ludicrous and utterly unlikely to influence anyone. Funny, in a sick kind of way, it is also a sobering reminder of what we are up against. It also helps amke the point that there is more than one religion capable of preaching hate.
                \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

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                • #38
                  Don't want to throw this thread off-topic, but go to the that website proper: http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
                  Somebody tell me it is satire and all rigged, but it looks very convincingly real ...
                  I have heard before that this website is a joke.

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                  • #39
                    I don't know- I heard these guys are serious, and seriously sick.

                    I'd like to know if there is a way I can be conservative on economic and certain social issues without being tied to these religious whackos. I guess libertarian is about as close to it as I can come...

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DL
                      Originally posted by feuerfuchs
                      Originally posted by DL
                      We are animals. Animals fight each other over territory and food and water, especially as it becomes scarce. So too do we. War is a natural fact of human existance and if we only had stick and stones, we'd still be waging war on one in another in some fashion. Might we evolve past it someday? Let's hope to whatever gods might exist that we do...
                      Sugar coated sentimentality. Do you think maybe the gods could, like, hurry the process up or something? People are dieing down here.
                      I'd hardly call pointing out that we are animals and do what we do because of evolution "sugar coated sentimetality". Do you just pinch phrases from Mr. M that you think sound cool?
                      I beg your pardon. You need to learn something about debating. I've read posts at this site where you accuse people of personal attacks against you. The personal attack you've just made against me seems to be the kind of comment that draws attacks against yourself and is of the nature you don't seem to like against yourself. I refuse to engage in the kind of personal attacks you have complained about before. But I will point this out: you have yet to offer a rational counter arguement to my 3 points. I'll thank you in the future to offer arguments and not personal insults. You should be ashamed. At least try to debate instead of resorting to non-argument based personal attacks. Aren't you the Demian Lackey who bandied threats of violence against Krunky and likewise? Name calling and so on? What's next, if you don't like my argument are you going to threaten me with violence?

                      I had expected some intelligent debate in this thread, but since the level seems to be tanking, I'll find another thread to spend my time in. I'm out of this one.

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                      • #41
                        Erm...Ooh...Ah...? :?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by feuerfuchs
                          Originally posted by Mikey_C
                          (1) Well, ants squirt each other with formic acid. Is that natural?
                          Can they do that while they fly airplanes?

                          Originally posted by Mikey_C
                          (2) Warning: This is shocking and offensive:
                          Was that a yes or a no?

                          Instead of posting this offensive material, couldn't you just post a link to it?
                          Before you go, Feuerfuchs - the answer to question 1 is 'no' . To clarify - I'm not trying to argue that war is 'natural' - just questioning the worth of that term in relation to human behaviour. Humans make weapons. A weapon is a tool for killing. Are tools 'unnatural'? Some animals use rudimentary tools. It might be argued that this behaviour is instinctive rather than rational. Is reason therefore 'unnatural'? If so. from whence does it come? It seems we're going in a roundabout way back to a theistic view of things. I honestly don't find it helpful.

                          2. This is clearly not a rational argument. I just wanted to show what humans are capable of. Maybe I should have posted a link. This didn't come from a hate site, by the way, but was posted by people who feel the same way as we do about it. Michael Moorcock does not go out to shock, but I've read some disturbing things in some of his books (eg 'Breakfast in the Ruins') presumably because he thinks that it is sometimes worth facing up to the terrible things that humanity does to itself. So I thought perhaps visitors to this site would view this in the same way. Remarks seem to indicate that most people found it found it educational at least. It's not something I'd make a habit of. (and oh yes - we do know who they voted for).

                          I think we're half in agreement about war, by the way. It is not 'natural'; however, neither it is 'unnatural', though, to my mind. Whatever it is, it stinks, though!
                          \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

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                          • #43
                            I forced myself to read a great deal of racist material in order to write the Pyat books. I also made myself look at pictures of concentration camp victims, living and dead, in order to see the individuality of each person. Some might call this an unhealthy fascination, but I believe it's my duty to know both what is going on and who is being affected. The material posted is sadly so 'tame' compared to much of the material of the same kind I've seen that I wasn't in any way shocked by it. I kind of wish I had been shocked, but it's common enough stuff, sadly. I've never set out to shock with any of the material I've published in my books. I simply believe I'm dealing with realities which need to be exposed, discussed and, if possible, countered. I certainly didn't see anything wrong with posting that bit of racism. The more we see of it, the more we can unite against it. Think how little we knew about domestic abuse, child sexual abuse and so on just a few years ago and how much we were able to counter it in many different ways. Vast numbers of women and children are no longer threatened or shamed into silence. I must say that I enjoyed my own innocence, when I thought such abuses were rare, but I would not want not to know. I don't think war is inevitable but I do know it's an easy option, especially for men, and the more we understand about it the better.

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                            • #44
                              Call me a FIEND!

                              THere are two ways (or more)of interpreting NATURAL

                              Most dictionaries have this - All that that does NOT SUFFER HUMAN INFLUENCE - meaning - everything that humans put their industry into IS NOT NATURAL.

                              But, that is extreme, and leads us to think that you humans are NOT natural, so, let us discard that.

                              The other is that of mine, in which everything that is not SUPERnatural, is natural - meaning - EVERYTHING.

                              There must be some gray tones in between, but, ill go to the point -

                              War is natural as anything else OR UNnatural as eating canned beans. so, it does not really matter - what some say that matters is that war is imorale and brute and we should be past it.

                              But i think overpopulation is going to be resolved on its own. Even if war and poverty cant get the job done, well do it in creative ways

                              www.darwinawards.com

                              i;m sure most of you have already seen this, but, some might have not.

                              Cheers

                              (And HURRAY! i'm closer to Londom! i hope i can see Mary POppins as suggested by MrM!!!)

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                              • #45
                                "MmmmMMmmmm..... Soylent GREeen... MMmmm...." :P

                                Quote:
                                -H. Simpson

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