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The Media about Gaza/Israel

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  • The Media about Gaza/Israel

    Israel soldiers crying



    "Spain, with Israel"



    "Slaughters of thier own people" (blaming Hamas)



    Hey, but these all are from the right-wing fly-paper "La Razَn" whose CEO was a member of Partido Popular, the party in charge of the Government.

    According "El Paيs", the (supposed) leftish newspaper, supporting the (supposed) Socialist (????) party in as S Pain, Palestinian children "die" because of the war and Israeli ones are "killed".







    Why people keeps on buying this crap??

    “If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”

    - Malcolm X


  • #2
    I think it is such a complicated subject that no-one leaves the discussion without heavy injuries - dealt or sustained. Not even Jews themselves (and Israelis) nor Arabs agree on what is really happening or what is right or wrong.
    And the media add a lot to the complications of assessing it all. My expert is better/truer/closer to it all/more competent/less biased etc than yours. Sticky matter and easy to lose friends by taking part.
    Google ergo sum

    Comment


    • #3
      You aren't wrong there Christian. So many ills on so many sides makes any action a fraught affair, though inaction is also a moral choice that must be well considered.

      But the attempted eradication of Gaza is too much IMHO. As indeed was the siege and seizure of the last decade. It matters nothing to the Israeli state but we have decided to boycott all goods from Israel in my household. You may or may not agree as you see fit: I don't intend to influence anyone on any of the many sides in this conflict, but just inform as to one tiny example of reaction to this utterly sad affair, where it seems common humanity was abandoned many years ago by the leaders of the powers that be.

      Comment


      • #4
        Making statements here or elsewhere on the web seem so absolute. Our opinions probably don't matter one little bit to those bringing about this or any of the other human disasters (Ukraine, Africa etc), yet we voice them. Of course, and out of sincere indignation plus, no doubt, in many cases out of helplessness.
        From all the information I see - rendering me helpless - I regard HAMAS as Gaza's brutal prison guard. Again, it is all so complicated that everybody seems to assemble all the infos and media bits in a way that makes sense to them. To me it is about HAMAS fighting to keep its legitimation (it is also widely unloved in the Arab world, by the way). We have seen footage that does not look fabricated in which the terrorists even force civilians back into the areas Israel has announced it will bomb. HAMAS is a cynical group that needs all the pictutes of dead civilians to get worldwide support. And what should Israel do, put their entire population in the bunkers and wait until HAMAS has run out of missiles, and then sweep the sidewalks as if nothing had happened?
        HAMAS cannot live without war and terror, Israel could. However, terror brings out the worst in Israel - like the horrid and sick statements of this female MP demanding the killing of Arab mothers ... The terror of HAMAS also keeps moderate politicians out of office in Israel! This is also part of the plan. Just as HAMAS would be out of their job if peace was achieved.
        There should be a Palestinian state! I support that any time. And when Hamas and some others do what Fatah and the Egyptians did before, namely accept the existance of the State of Israel, the Hawks on the Israeli side will have to give way to sensible people ... and a Palestine state could grow out of all the turmoil. My hope at least.
        Again, as I indicated, it is my - subjective - putting together of bits and conclusions, which may change in time or not.
        Google ergo sum

        Comment


        • #5
          It's a confusing mess. The Israeli governments settlement policy is illegal, as are the post-1967 land grabs. But I'm unclear what they are supposed to do while under attack by organizations that deny the existence of Israel. They are surrounded by countries that don't recognize their right to exist, solely because they are Jewish and not Islamic. That's not an apology on my part, both sides are killing children, but in terms of real options for them, the way is murky.

          I'd say that while HAMAS exists as a militant organization, and Likud is in power in Israel, there won't be progress.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hamas are without doubt a scourge and a living evil. Perhaps not quite as awful as boko haram but splitting hairs in the living horror stakes seems pointless. But Hamas only have a toe hold due to the abomnible actions of the Israeli state overgenerations now. Reaping and sowing is a harsh line to take, but has some validity. As regards our personal boycott; I'd boycott hams too if I could but the economic blockade Isreal has imposed (with the aid of Egypt) have already made that choice for us.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: HAMAS and Boku Haram, I think HAMAS is just a better funded gang of thugs who went to a little more school.

              I find no moral footing in the debate. It's just a guess but it looks like many Israelis think that HAMAS would have no toehold if Israel hadn't withdrawn from Gaza ten years ago. I think HAMAS would be there even if they hadn't, maybe without the missiles, just the bombs strapped to their chests.

              I'm of the opinion that even if the partition had been accepted by the Arabs in 1948, there would still be fighting - I feel that at the root of it, even if the Israelis didn't want to restore their mythical borders as they seem to, the Palestinians would still want them wiped off the map altogether. I'm not going to pick a side, I just wish there was a way to make them shut up and hold hands.

              Comment


              • #8
                I object somewhat to the term "the Arabs". I think many could and would get on very well in peace with Israel. Just as there are many who despise their neighbouring fellow Arabs as much as the Isrealis.
                Google ergo sum

                Comment


                • #9
                  Fair enough, LE, point well taken and you're right. 'Arab States' might be a better way of saying it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think we all are appalled by the violence unleashed and it is probably important for our own sanity to overcome the feeling of complete impotence, so that whatever actions undertaken to help the suffering people (not the war parties) make sense. We'll go to a jazz event tonight in a venue run by a Jewish lady (...). All the entry fees go to medicins sans frontieres.
                    I think it is the best thing for me personally to do: encourage all initiatives that bring hope.
                    Google ergo sum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rothgo View Post
                      Hamas are without doubt a scourge and a living evil. Perhaps not quite as awful as boko haram but splitting hairs in the living horror stakes seems pointless. But Hamas only have a toe hold due to the abomnible actions of the Israeli state overgenerations now. Reaping and sowing is a harsh line to take, but has some validity. As regards our personal boycott; I'd boycott hams too if I could but the economic blockade Isreal has imposed (with the aid of Egypt) have already made that choice for us.
                      Ideal would be for me finding a way to boycott Hamas, but not the people they've taken hostage.
                      I suspect all along though, that Hamas' main sponsor and missile supplier, Iran, will eventually turn away because of the new realities of the Shiites being under pressure in Syria and Iraq. This forces them to cautiously collaborate with the USA and allies.
                      Google ergo sum

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think it's true everywhere, not just in the middle east, that a good focus is to make sure aid gets to those who need it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's difficult to feel a great deal of sympathy for the state of Israel after it's persistently aggressive behaviour and over the top responses to Hamas provocation. Any criticism of the state of Israel elicits accusations of anti-semitism when they are more accurately anti-Zionist, or merely a dislike for Israeli foreign policy.

                          However, it is equally difficult to agree with the Hamas approach which is effectively IRA style guerrilla terrorism. As has been proved many times in modern history, such a group can never bomb their way to victory.

                          Personally my sympathy lies with Palestine against the illegal occupation and development of land by Isreal, and whilst I can understand their approach of provoking Israel into discrediting themselves in the eyes of the world through excessive responses, they are doing so at the expense of too many innocent Palestinian lives.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The event last night raised 3.000 Euros for the medicins sans frontieres doctors currently working in Gaza ...
                            Google ergo sum

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks, L'Entranger, for showing there are still humane methods of approach. I have most recently simply chosen to largely remain silent with regard to Israel and Gaza. I don't think reasoned debate can be had when to criticize one side is to be labelled a Zionist and to criticize the other is to be labelled an anti-semite. I must confess, with the exception of the children, my thought processes cynically resulted in an unspoken "fine, then a pox on both your houses." Perhaps I have been approaching this wrong. As the name of this forum suggests and your own story demonstrates, maybe when there can be no reasoned debate, then humane activism is the way to go. What kind of jazz? I'm a BIG Coltrane guy :)
                              Kevin McCabe
                              The future is there, looking back at us. Trying to make sense of the fiction we will have become. William Gibson

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