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A plea

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  • A plea

    Dear friends across the pond.

    A well known British tabloid ran a headline this day four years ago which read:


    We're all begging you wake up and smell the coffee!!!

    Please don't dump Dubya on us again!!!!

  • #2
    Rightey O, Mate. I did me part.
    It's a few of the historically "red states" where the decision will be ultimately made!

    Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania (sp?), New Mexico, Minnesota and a few more are the states to watch.
    \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
    Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview


    • #3
      It looks like Bill knows his politics ?

      I don't know whether or not I'm supposed to change my avatar at this point!
      \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
      Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview


      • #4
        There's gonna be litigation.

        I don't think we're gonna know the results by tonight.

        Maybe I don't know shit. I WILL get some rest tonight though.
        No use in staying up all night.
        \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
        Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview


        • #5
          I just wanted to say how much I admire the voters I've seen queuing for over TWO HOURS to exercise their right to vote... and in the pouring rain! I know it's considered to be quite a close election, and there are some pretty serious issues on the table, but I'm still deeply impressed by the stamina of those people taking it upon themselves to reverse the trend towards apathy. The suggestion is that new voters tend to favour "change", but either way, I salute the American public for making the effort... I'm not sure how I'd feel if there was any actual physical effort involved in voting.
          "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild


          • #6
            looking like Bush has won :(

            Even though I'm not a yank, I feel similarly deflated as when John Major (Tory party) won the 92 election against the polls - most of which predicted a win for thre Labour Party.

            I just hope Bush and the Cheney-Oil junta behave differently in the second term, or God help us all.


            • #7
              8O :x
              \" ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell


              • #8
                Thanks for the words, mates.

                I wish I lived in a democracy!

                I wonder why the exit polls stats didn't match the supposed actual votes?

                Sam (New Jersey ).....
                So no one is left under the impression... Tuesday, 12:44 PM

                ...that the Repugs are more inclusive than we, yes the people of Guam count as much as the people of Ohio!

                But it is the same constitution that didn’t see any problem with slavery that still says that!

                The Electoral College system does not provide for residents of U.S. territories, such as Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands and American Samoa to vote for president. Unless citizens in U.S. territories have official residency (domicile) in a U.S. state or the District of Columbia (and vote by absentee ballot or travel to their state to vote), they cannot vote in the presidential election. Note that prior to the adoption of the 23rd Amendment, D.C. residents could not vote in the presidential election.

                The political parties may authorize voters in primary elections in territories to select delegates to represent them at the political party conventions. But that process does not affect the Electoral College system.

                Michelle (Minnesota )...

                Exactly, Sam Tuesday, 2:41 PM

                It is the American version of colonialism. It is also something that we have looked down at other coutries for. We need to clean house before we tell others what form of government they must take.

                Uzoma (DC )...
                The American Colonies 8:42 AM
                Here is an issue I spent my first year of college researching. Apparently, the American version of colonialism is exactly right. They pay America taxes but they cant vote for president and they only get delegates. That's DC too. My parents did social services work in DC. Consequently, I've had a unique view of the place. I remember helping both Barry and Williams become Mayor, making speeches for a school board candidate and renovating parks and buildings. For all of my life I have heard politicians talking about DC as a most wonderful place, or as one that needed improvement but never as a state. The American territories have similar problems. If they can't vote and aren't reperesented, they have trouble influencing politics and therefore end up forgotten. But Democrats are more inclusive by far. It upsets me to see the GOP use African Americans and others like tokens. The RNC featured more Black Republicans than you will ever see in one place until the next one. They allowed Keyes to run against Obama only after White Republicans declined. Deomocrats on the other hand include Black people and others, and often you will see them in high positions all year, not just at the convention.
                \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview


                • #9
                  One of the stats that leaves me shaking my head...

                  There was a stat...

                  What was your major concern for voting today?

                  it was something like...

                  23% = Moral values

                  and something like

                  74% of these "moral values voters" voted for Bush


                  Bush is "more moral" than Kerry?

                  I guess these are the people that think like the poster
                  Blackheart-Lurue (if I recall the name correctly).

                  Moral values apparantly means: Christian, honest, against gay marriage, and against abortion.

                  If I may be punny... HOLY SHIT!

                  I heard that Bush changed denominations a couple of times. Something like... he was first presybiterian (sp?) and now he's methodist.

                  He's a Christian Flip-Flopper!
                  \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                  Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview


                  • #10
                    As I wrote in the other thread, without 9/11, no way in hell Bush would have won.

                    FEAR has overcome reason.

                    What will Bush do to continue his fear game?

                    On to Iran! On to N. Korea!


                    Reinstate the draft!

                    Congratulations Ohio! 4 more years of job loss! Hopefully a few Wal-Marts will sprout there. Now there's a career opportunity!

                    a Wal-Mart tag with your name here !

                    don't forget! the name tag is one of the most important parts of the uniform!
                    \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                    Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview


                    • #11
                      He's a Christian Flip-Flopper!
                      lol....sorry, but I have to there such a thing as a Christian who doesn't flip-flop? I don't get this Christian thing with Bush anyway, John Kerry is a Christian too. In Georgia, we had an amendment on our ballot (which, unfortunately, got voted in) to change the state constitution to define marriage as being between only a man and a woman. The only reason that was on the ballot was to get the conservative Christian vote. I think it's just sick to pre-emptively fuck with people's lives just to get Republican voters to go to the polls.


                      • #12
                        commandment: do not kill.

                        declaration of war: go and kill.

                        for this alone bush is not following his faith. he's got a lot of nerve to say Jesus is his favorite philosopher and that God is telling him what to do. it's hypocrisy at it's worst.

                        am i perfect? nope, so i guess i can't throw stones. but you know what? i never sent off anybody's kids to war over the invisible, the nonexistant, or for oil.

                        four more years. i'm sorry, world at large. bear with us.


                        • #13
                          Article on the ambiguous? "Moral values"...

                          If you want to read the entire thing, let me know and I'll put all of it on...


                          Updated: 01:07 PM EST
                          Poll Question Stirs Debate on Meaning of 'Moral Values'

                          By JIM RUTENBERG, The New York Times

                          (Nov. 6) - "Citing a major Election Day poll that found "moral values" ranked at the top of the list of issues that swayed the national electorate, some news organizations have portrayed matters like same-sex marriage and abortion as the sleeper factors of a campaign fought mostly over war, jobs, health care and terrorism.

                          Democrats have looked at the data as evidence that they desperately need to do a better job connecting with cultural traditionalists. Conservative groups have used the survey data to make a case that mainstream America agrees with the conservative agenda that Mr. Bush now has a mandate to act upon....

                          ....some Democrats and independent pollsters say these assumptions are largely based on a flawed polling question that has skewed the results to make it seem as if cultural matters had a more powerful effect than they actually did. Though they acknowledge that cultural issues were important in Mr. Bush's re-election, they say they worry that that Republicans and Mr. Bush will act forcefully on a false mandate."
                          \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                          Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview


                          • #14
                            Re: Article on the ambiguous? "Moral values"...

                            Originally posted by journalist
                            they worry that that Republicans and Mr. Bush will act forcefully on a false mandate."
                            Yes. False mandate.

                            I've heard a couple of people say, "He's not my president." I'd say that there's a lil bit more than a couple who agree with that statement.

                            How about just about half of the voters?
                            \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                            Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview


                            • #15
                              Voting Without the Facts

                              November 8, 2004
                              By BOB HERBERT

                              The so-called values issue, at least as it's being
                              popularly tossed around, is overrated.

                              Last week's election was extremely close and a modest shift
                              in any number of factors might have changed the outcome. If
                              the weather had been better in Ohio. ...If the wait to get
                              into the voting booth hadn't been so ungodly long in
                              certain Democratic precincts. ... Or maybe if those younger
                              voters had actually voted. ...

                              I think a case could be made that ignorance played at least
                              as big a role in the election's outcome as values. A recent
                              survey by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at
                              the University of Maryland found that nearly 70 percent of
                              President Bush's supporters believe the U.S. has come up
                              with "clear evidence" that Saddam Hussein was working
                              closely with Al Qaeda. A third of the president's
                              supporters believe weapons of mass destruction were found
                              in Iraq. And more than a third believe that a substantial
                              majority of world opinion supported the U.S.-led invasion.

                              This is scary. How do you make a rational political pitch
                              to people who have put that part of their brain on hold? No
                              wonder Bush won.

                              The survey, and an accompanying report, showed that there's
                              a fair amount of cluelessness in the ranks of the values
                              crowd. The report said, "It is clear that supporters of the
                              president are more likely to have misperceptions than those
                              who oppose him."

                              I haven't heard any of the postelection commentators talk
                              about ignorance and its effect on the outcome. It's all
                              values, all the time. Traumatized Democrats are wringing
                              their hands and trying to figure out how to appeal to
                              voters who have arrogantly claimed the moral high ground
                              and can't stop babbling about their self-proclaimed
                              superiority. Potential candidates are boning up on new
                              prayers and purchasing time-shares in front-row-center

                              A more practical approach might be for Democrats to add
                              teach-ins to their outreach efforts. Anything that shrinks
                              the ranks of the clueless would be helpful.

                              If you don't think this values thing has gotten out of
                              control, consider the lead paragraph of an op-ed article
                              that ran in The LA. Times on Friday. It was written by
                              Frank Pastore, a former major league pitcher who is now a
                              host on the Christian talk-radio station KKLA.

                              "Christians, in politics as in evangelism," said Mr.
                              Pastore, "are not against people or the world. But we are
                              against false ideas that hold good people captive. On
                              Tuesday, this nation rejected liberalism, primarily because
                              liberalism has been taken captive by the left. Since 1968,
                              the left has taken millions captive, and we must help those
                              Democrats who truly want to be free to actually break free
                              of this evil ideology."

                              Mr. Pastore goes on to exhort Christian conservatives to
                              reject any and all voices that might urge them "to
                              compromise with the vanquished." How's that for values?

                              In The New York Times on Thursday, Richard Viguerie, the
                              dean of conservative direct mail, declared, "Now comes the
                              revolution." He said, "Liberals, many in the media and
                              inside the Republican Party, are urging the president to
                              'unite' the country by discarding the allies that earned
                              him another four years."

                              Mr. Viguerie, it is clear, will stand four-square against
                              any such dangerous moves toward reconciliation.

                              You have to be careful when you toss the word values
                              around. All values are not created equal. Some Democrats
                              are casting covetous eyes on voters whose values, in many
                              cases, are frankly repellent. Does it make sense for the
                              progressive elements in our society to undermine their own
                              deeply held beliefs in tolerance, fairness and justice in
                              an effort to embrace those who deliberately seek to divide?

                              What the Democratic Party needs above all is a clear
                              message and a bold and compelling candidate. The message
                              has to convince Americans that they would be better off
                              following a progressive Democratic vision of the future.
                              The candidate has to be a person of integrity capable of
                              earning the respect and the affection of the American

                              This is doable. Al Gore and John Kerry were less than
                              sparkling candidates, and both came within a hair of
                              defeating Mr. Bush.

                              What the Democrats don't need is a candidate who is willing
                              to shape his or her values to fit the pundits' probably
                              incorrect analysis of the last election. Values that pivot
                              on a dime were not really values to begin with.

                              \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                              Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview