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Trust the Government?

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  • Trust the Government?

    In New Zealand, one official has suggested getting rid of all the cats, to protect birds.

    In Japan, a minister suggested that old people "Hurry up and die." to save money.

    So,to my doggie, add your granny and your moggy after all, who needs them?

    This is how such people think, they like simple answers, Final Solutions. Keeps the paperwork clean.

    MY Gramma is dead, so is my cat, why should I care? In the Netherlands, they use euthanasia to fix depression, and recently twin brothers got the needle because they were deaf and going blind. They asked for it, and the docs were Johnny-at-the-rathole.

    Is that all right with you?, because it's not all right with me. Too much opportunity for abuse. Dead men(or Grannies) tell no tales, it seems so reasonable.....

    On a lighter note, my new Cthulhu fez arrived a bit ago, the guys(and other things) down at The Esoteric Order of Dagon will be green(well, some of them are already green) with envy.
    Last edited by krakenten; 01-23-2013, 12:26 PM. Reason: punctuation

  • #2
    I think I'd still rather all this madness with a chance to fix it, than living under an absolute monarch.

    But that's just me.
    Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.

    ~Henry David Thoreau

    Comment


    • #3
      N.Z. : yes, reasonable. N.Z. has a truely unique ecosystem, much of which is due to the lack of cat like preditors. I don't know the details, or how effective it would be, but as a goal, I think fair enough. Also a bit of a strawman to describe it as "protect birds" like it is a handfull of chickens and a canary

      Nertherlands: Well, I am pro volentary euthanasia, so I don't see a problem in general. Again, if we are talking about doctors sayiong "Well... you could take this prozac, but it is about $30 bucks a box. Better kill yourself" then obviously I would have an issue with it. Somehow I think it is a little more sophisticated than that.

      Japan: I have no idea of the context that statement happened within, and so can't asses if I think it is reasonable.

      Side note. Someone I have a lot of respect for, who is very liberal in a lot of respects, and who was the ward head of a psychiatric hospital for 30+ years once said he was not in favor of legalising euthanasia. I was very suprised by this, and asked him why. He said that euthanasia happens all the time, but that atm it is in the hands of doctors, who view it as a medical issue, centered on the patients. Legalise it and it puts the decision in the hands of lawers

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      • #4
        Then there was that time, when everybody was driven along, like sheep, into invading Iraq.

        Not so long ago, either.

        Comment


        • #5
          People in governments come up with all sorts of wacky ideas. The good thing is that unless they are an absolute monarch, there are checks and balances to tame the wackiness.

          But I think "Trust the Government?" is too broad a question with no real meaning or answer beyond tossing back a slogan. Which government? Syria's, not so much. Japan? Sure on many things. The US? Sometimes. The United Federation of Planets? Mostly, unless parts of it have been taken over by alien parasites.

          "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained."
          - Mark Twain, notebook entry, 1898.

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          • #6
            They don't trust the government much in Afghanistan, either. Never have. That's what has always made it such an interesting place to visit. Ask Alexander, Queen Victoria, or Brezhnev.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pietro_Mercurios View Post
              They don't trust the government much in Afghanistan, either. Never have. That's what has always made it such an interesting place to visit. Ask Alexander, Queen Victoria, or Brezhnev.
              The great PM, Robert Peel said after 1842 - He was not going to go to war to teach the Afghans about Adam Smith. Perhaps we could change that to Gremaine Greer or Naom Chomsky?
              Papa was a Rolling Stone......

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pebble View Post
                Originally posted by Pietro_Mercurios View Post
                They don't trust the government much in Afghanistan, either. Never have. That's what has always made it such an interesting place to visit. Ask Alexander, Queen Victoria, or Brezhnev.
                The great PM, Robert Peel said after 1842 - He was not going to go to war to teach the Afghans about Adam Smith. Perhaps we could change that to Gremaine Greer or Naom Chomsky?
                Two famous contemporary economic philosophers and promoters of Free Market Capitalism?

                Ayn Rand and Rush Limbaugh, surely?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lucid Sirius View Post
                  People in governments come up with all sorts of wacky ideas. The good thing is that unless they are an absolute monarch, there are checks and balances to tame the wackiness.
                  Monarchs or dictators. Ironically "The West" with its elected governments nurtured such people as long as it seemed useful, the Shah, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, Suharto, Franco, Noriega, Trujillo etc.
                  The undemocratic "East", well, we never expected anything good from their puppets (while they were useful too: we could point to them and say: This is what you'll get if you even think socialist)


                  Originally posted by Lucid Sirius View Post
                  But I think "Trust the Government?" is too broad a question with no real meaning or answer beyond tossing back a slogan.
                  Right. It is more like baiting, and likely meant to conclude finally in the old myth of self-reliance, armed to the teeth or not.
                  Google ergo sum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And this from people who hate surveillance cameras.

                    Recently, speed trap and red light cameras have been shown to be rigged to mulct fines from the innocent. Why? Profit. Nobody makes much from cameras that monitor areas for crime, but those have also been used to raise money.

                    If thugs or muggers beat you one-eyed, the big shots care not a fig, but a fifty dollar littering fine excites them no end. Actually, cameras have caught a lot of bent coppers-like Lisa Steed-and thus justice gets a boost.

                    Not a day passes we don't hear of some pubic official caught perpetrating an un-natural act on a dead bear, or some such. People in power, abuse power, especially when no one can see them do it. I could tell you stories, but nobody will believe them, drunk judges, probation officers who extort sex from probationers, cops who are certifiable. It goes on.

                    Worst of all are the sundowners, people who have authority and use it to bully and cause misery. They act,often quite violently, on distorted first impressions. They never stop hounding those they attack, and it costs us money, as well as being plain wrong

                    Do not give them the tools to do this. Keep government transparent, call the buffoons and bullies to account at once. They almost always serve the public poorly, and cause more trouble than they prevent.

                    If you give your money to a steward to manage, and never check your balance sheet, the result is poverty for you. Government is similar, except you get tyrants and fools running your life.

                    The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, trust no one. If you have honest and competent officials, rejoice, and give them praise. If not, punish them. There are plenty of good people who'll be glad for the job.

                    'cause, guess where the hand basket is going?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nathaniel View Post
                      Nertherlands: Well, I am pro volentary euthanasia, so I don't see a problem in general. Again, if we are talking about doctors sayiong "Well... you could take this prozac, but it is about $30 bucks a box. Better kill yourself" then obviously I would have an issue with it. Somehow I think it is a little more sophisticated than that.
                      Side note. Someone I have a lot of respect for, who is very liberal in a lot of respects, and who was the ward head of a psychiatric hospital for 30+ years once said he was not in favor of legalising euthanasia. I was very suprised by this, and asked him why. He said that euthanasia happens all the time, but that atm it is in the hands of doctors, who view it as a medical issue, centered on the patients. Legalise it and it puts the decision in the hands of lawers

                      You know, I have to take 4 pills of prozac every day due to my multiple disorders, OCD and anxiety. That qualifies as the maximum dose one can take daily. However, I would not consider the idea of killing my self instead
                      "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                      "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I had been, unfortunately, from my 16 up to my 32 years of age, a huge supporter of the Brazilian party called Worker's Party/PT. For reasons I cannot really understand now I thought Lula, their leader and former president, was someone who would do a decent job. Not accidentaly, it took those 16 years to Lula to turn a Brazilian president. And the very same time to realize I was being a fool.

                        Lula's party has been part of the greatest corruptible scheme involving a situation party in the whole Brazilian history. This episode was called, tenderly, Mensalao/Huge reward, or in brief words, huge amounts of money they paid for politicians to agree "wholeheartly" with PT. Although most of Lula's closest friends and also PT members were involved in the scandal, and they were all found guilty and sentenced to jail, Lula said :

                        He did not know anything about the scheme
                        He trusted his friends so much
                        He does not like to read something with more than 2 pages
                        He brags about becoming a president and not having more than 4 years of formal study ( in the past, the party deceived us saying that Lula was an avid self-taught man, something I truly and stupidly believed )
                        He used to say "I am president for you my people, I am just like you I never had lots of formal studies neither I even cared for any in my life."

                        Gotta love my government!
                        "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                        "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Illegal telephone and internet surveillance

                          Now that we know the U.S. government engaged in illegal telephone and internet surveillance of it's populace, we also learn that government representatives and NSA officals think they are in the right for taking those actions.

                          No apologies?

                          No fines, lawsuits, penalties and repercussions?

                          It looks to me that the government is basically saying, "It's cool, bro!,"
                          after being found guilty of a crime.

                          It's like the government is sending someone by with a stick to beat you with while, at the same time, saying that the beating is okay because they have a 'good' reason. They will say that beating you will make you a better person, give you strong character.

                          "With a deep, not-unhappy sigh, Elric prepared to do battle with an army." (Red Pearls)
                          - Michael Moorcock

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Just to clarify, what they did was legal based on laws passed by the US Congress.

                            I think there probably ought to be a bill clarifying what they can collect and how they can do it, who can see it (which means a low level outside contractor like the whistle-blower shouildn't have even had access) and make strong punishments for misuse.

                            We give our information to everyone now. At least the Government is somewhat accountable, Google on the other hand...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by krakenten View Post
                              In New Zealand, one official has suggested getting rid of all the cats, to protect birds.

                              In Japan, a minister suggested that old people "Hurry up and die." to save money.

                              So,to my doggie, add your granny and your moggy after all, who needs them?

                              This is how such people think, they like simple answers, Final Solutions. Keeps the paperwork clean.
                              Australia had rabbits introduced and look at the problems there. Incidentally, the BBC prog on domestic cats suggested that cats are not as responsible for all the destruction of wildlife as as been suggested.

                              The returning ideas of the Malthusians and eugenic; promoted by the majority of socialists in the 19th and early 20th century (HG Wells - Food of the Gods, frightening when I read) before it became unfashionable. Optimium Population Trust by the great and the good is one promoter and being pushed by Sir David Attenburough as saving wildlife and even Monty Don has gone in on the act. The UK Eugenics Society has not gone away, but was rebranded as the Galton Institute.

                              Here in the UK, we have had a lot of promotion about euthanasia to reduce suffering, but could it have a more sinister purpose. I can foresee that we might be asked to retire permanently after a certain age unless you can paid for yourself.
                              Papa was a Rolling Stone......

                              Comment

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