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UK Government to force entry to Ecuadorean Embassy?

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  • jordaneast
    replied
    As it is Assange wants to leave Manning swinging for something that might have been done at Assange's instigation. Anyway, we most likely wouldn't see that until after the election in November.

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  • opaloka
    replied
    The Manning case is far more complicated than the Pussy Riot case. The Pussy Riot case is a case of free speech that offended not just the powers that be, but a lot of ordinary Russians who can be very religious. Offensive or threatening to power as it was, it is still speech that should be protected.

    I don't think we can talk about the Manning case without talking about whether nation-states have the right to keep secrets, and whether soldiers should have all the same rights as civilians.

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  • Nathaniel
    replied
    Originally posted by Ben View Post
    I find it interesting to compare the Wikileaks/Assange/Manning affair to Pussey Riot. Two equally driven administrations afraid of free speech????
    Except that Assange is wanted in relation to sexual assault, which I don't think many people think of as being covered by "free speech"

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  • FeAnPi
    replied
    What you describe, opaloka, is - sadly - an habit for Italian politicians. :(

    And, sadly, the B. man is not currently our prime minister, but he still has many supporters. This happens when someone controls the media, and hadtwenty years to shape people's beliefs and ideals.

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  • opaloka
    replied
    Its when they start trying to change the constitution to favor themselves, or installing family members that you have to start worrying.

    A lot of people were pretty concerned about Berlusconi but it seems to have worked out in the long run. Maybe some more limits are in order.

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  • FeAnPi
    replied
    I would say that authority always remains authority. As I wrote above, why if Chavez is elected for more than two mandates this is a sign of dictatorship, but if the above mentioned little old politician candidates himself as prime minister for six times he is not a would be dictator?


    The ways of power tend to be the same in every country, but it is a custom to the power to cover its crimes against men and to stigmatize those of its enemies.

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  • Robin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ben View Post
    I find it interesting to compare the Wikileaks/Assange/Manning affair to Pussey Riot. Two equally driven administrations afraid of free speech????
    Except that Bradley Manning has already been locked up for longer than Pussy Riot will spend in jail - and seemingly under much worse conditions. And whatever they have planned for Assange, they're not saying.

    Also interesting that Pussy Riot supporters were just arrested in Germany, for a "repeat" of the original protest, and could be facing 3 years in jail (although I suspect not). Particularly interesting when the German government have been so critical of the Russian authorities.

    It looks like they all believe we should have the right to criticise someone else..

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  • Ben
    replied
    it's worth mentioning that in connection to Assange, Bradley Manning is still held in the US and awaiting trial.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning

    As far as I ever trust wikipedia as a reliable source, his story seems particularly tragic and I suspect he will be hung out to dry by the forthcoming proceedings.

    Personally I can't blame Assange for seeking asylum whereever he can....

    I find it interesting to compare the Wikileaks/Assange/Manning affair to Pussey Riot. Two equally driven administrations afraid of free speech????

    Leave a comment:


  • FeAnPi
    replied
    The fact is, Zlogdan, that most Italian citizens ignored who Battisti was (having forgot it, or more often having not even heard of him); but, when the case exploded, the opinion of many Italians (not mine, but I suppose this is clear enough) was the one you told.
    Why? Well, imagine a very short old man who controls the three main private TV channels of the country, and many journals, and imagine that, becoming prime minister, this little old man could control (and humiliate, because when his order was to ignore the real fact – as the financial crisis that the government made nothing to prevent or defend the country against - the opening news on TV were the invention of an ice-cream for dogs and similar crap; no, I'm not joking and yes, this is really sad) two of the three main public TV channels. Imagine an opposition to this old man that is forced to accept and incapable of avoiding his topics as the main themes of debate even when the real interests of the nation are elsewhere. So imagine how easily many Italian citizens started believing that Battisti's one was the main problem; not the fact that the prime minister was a close friend of every North-African dictator, not that he was seen in the world as a sex-addict gaffe-maker shame-spreader, not that people was losing his jobs, not that the government did nothing about it. Battisti's freedom was the matter. This acted when the memory of Craxi, a corrupt politician that was a close friend of the mentioned little prime minister, so corrupted that he was forced to abandon Italy in order to avoid jail, was rehabilitated by the governing party

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  • zlogdan
    replied
    Originally posted by FeAnPi View Post
    A few words about Cesare Battisti: his situation is a bit complicated. He was condemned without a chance to defend himself, according to the account of a repentant.
    Well, that is new perspective. We get obviously the perspective of that "bald leader" here because part of our press is right-winged ( Veja magazine). But Cesare Battisti is friends with Lula and many other PT guys, which are being investigated for serious corruption crimes. I am still waiting to see a living politician I would trust.

    We were however told that the Italian citizens were quite offended by Cesare Battisti getting free here in Crapland, that is why I thought we made something wrong. But I will always listen to the people, they know better!

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  • FeAnPi
    replied
    A few words about Cesare Battisti: his situation is a bit complicated. He was condemned without a chance to defend himself, according to the account of a repentant. Basically, in Italy it is possible, when arrested, to reduce your punishing by denouncing his accomplices; accomplices that, more than often, are “suggested” to you.
    But for Battisti the situation is even more dubious, because according to the accuse he should be some kind of wizard, capable of being simultaneously in two different places. When he was condemned in absentia, also, the situation was very peculiar, as it still is: basically, the so-called “black terrorism”, the right wing terrorism, is largely unpunished (and we speak of the worse kind of terrorism: bombs with dozens of victims, victims whose blood has yet to be avenged, victims whose killers are yet to be prosecuted), but the “red terrorism”, the left wing terrorism, was strongly prosecuted and very often a terrorist was made from a simple activist, thanks to the repentant mechanism.
    The case of Battisti was a strong point in the politic of a sadly well-known formerly bald sex-addict short man, whose government mounted a real case about a matter unknown to the most. This while former black terrorist obtained jobs in the public sector thanks to the efforts (efforts that in Sardinia are called “accozzi”, from the mussel – cozza – and its strong way to attach itself to the reef) of the fascist major of Rome, who during youth spent months in jail for his actions; it is superfluous to add that this major is a political ally of the formerly mentioned sex addict short man. And, just to throw a few more facts in the thread, a man presented as a victim of Battisti is forced on a wheel-chair after a shoplift of which Battisti is accused, but his injury derives from his father, the owner of the robbed jewel shop, whose aim with his gun was less than acceptable.


    So yes, South America is surely not the merry and jolly and happy land that many in Europe dream of, but it is neither the land of dictatorship that US and Europe love to depict, perhaps to mask their decline, forgetting of their own not so liberal nor democratic acts. I mean, in Italy the fact that Chavez supported a law to make possible for him to be elected more than once was criticized as the act of a dictator, while here not a single law forbids to became prime minister for a third or a fourth time (the already mentioned short man was elected three times, was a candidate two more times, and has decided to candidate himself a sixth time; so, if according to right wing press Chaved aspired to dictatorship, what should we say about this little man?).

    Leave a comment:


  • Kymba334
    replied
    ...

    Originally posted by Robin View Post
    Thanks for that, it's very interesting to get a look at something from Australia on the subject. It certainly seemed to support the claims that Assange's supporters have been making. Does Four Corners generally put forward "alternative" viewpoints?
    Well Robin, "alternative" to Fox News perhaps!
    Answer: basically,yes,on the whole, which is why the ABC Broadcasting service is usually not much liked by some Australian politicians past and present.
    Last edited by Kymba334; 08-22-2012, 03:12 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robin
    replied
    Thanks for that, it's very interesting to get a look at something from Australia on the subject. It certainly seemed to support the claims that Assange's supporters have been making. Does Four Corners generally put forward "alternative" viewpoints?

    Leave a comment:


  • zilch
    replied
    Get a perspective from down under

    Four Corners

    Leave a comment:


  • thingfish
    replied
    Why dont they just set up a huge PA outside the Ecuadorian embassy and blast him with Abba's Greatest Hits 24/7.

    After a couple of days he would be begging to go to Sweden just so he could kill Bjorn and Benny with his bare hands(keep him away from the other two though!)

    Leave a comment:

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