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The best and the worst of our nations

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  • The best and the worst of our nations

    Talking to my friend Heresiologist we kind of thought about a thread where we could discuss the very evil and good nature of our home lands. Full honesty, no made up facts, and sadly for now, more criticism than praising the good aspects.
    Last edited by zlogdan; 08-01-2012, 10:14 AM.
    "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
    "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

  • #2
    Actually, I was hoping for a "Four Yorkshiremen" feeling in the posts. Maybe something like:

    "Oh, we used to dream of livin' in Brazil! Would ha' been a paradise to us. We used to live in a northern welfare state. Then we got woke up one morning by having a load of rotten conservatives dumped all over us! Parliament? Huh."
    Last edited by Heresiologist; 08-01-2012, 10:37 AM.

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    • #3
      Am I allowed to mention drop bears?

      Comment


      • #4
        When I'm abroad the things I miss most about good old Blighty are:

        Proper beer
        Fried breakfasts
        Liverpool FC
        The Guardian
        The BBC
        London
        Green fields and rolling countryside
        Gentle British cynicism

        When I'm here the things I dislike the most are:

        The weather
        Miserablist, sniping, cynical, corrupt politically biased press (I know, I read
        The Guardian.....)
        Manchester United
        Surrey and all that is mediocre middle-England
        Lager brewed in the UK
        Speed cameras
        Small mindedness
        The 'have a baby get a council house live on the dole forever' lifestyle choices forced upon people by poverty and social and geographical immobility
        The Daily Mail

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        • #5
          Enticing!

          I vill komment on my native Germany after ze holidays.

          Not even packed yet, still so much to do, so let's say early September.
          I'm also curious what Papi has to say, now that they have a new president in France. Well, the wine, cheese and whitebread's all unchanged I hope.
          Google ergo sum

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          • #6
            Well, don't get me started on my "Brazil sucks" rantings :-) For now, I will try to focus on the best part.

            But when it comes to Canada and England, these are two great places to live, however I would not want to live there. When a Brazilian leaves Brazil he starts to miss his nation, no matter how cynical and critical they are ( example my self ). I went to USA back in 2002 at work, and could not wait the time to get home.

            But at the top of my list of places I'd love to visit are UK ( whole thing, England , Whales, Scotland, Ireland, etc ), Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Of course, if I was rich and if did not fear airplane flying so much :-.

            My father has lived in London back in 1985. He quite liked there, except he missed Brazil...

            I was an occasional beer drinker, because I frankly love beer. I had decided to not drink anymore, mostly because it does not help me given the anxiety medicines I take. But all the best beer types in the world are British! Except for that excellent Heineken.

            Both Canada and UK are two places known by its culture, society, science, technology and natural beauty.

            Brazil is known by being a place where everybody gets naked on Carnaval, soccer, samba. While I don't feel necessarily bad of seeing the naked women, on contrary, my wife forgives me please, I have grown tired of the other two. What annoys me the most here is hypocrisy, lack of moral and ethics, crime and corruption. What I like the best is the nature, the country side of Brazil and the good people of here. We had a great writer called Joao Guimaraes Rosa, which can easily rival with Shakespeare in terms of importance for the Portuguese tongue.
            "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
            "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
              ...
              Both Canada and UK are two places known by its culture, society, science, technology and natural beauty.
              ...
              Paging Wanderlust on the subject of the current Canadian federal government's stewardship of the items noted above.

              Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
              Well, don't get me started on my "Brazil sucks" rantings :-) For now, I will try to focus on the best part.
              Seeing as you are seeing the positive about Brazil, I've been intrigued by the following economic breakdown you presented over in the Olympic Opening Ceremony thread:

              Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
              ...
              We are around 200 000 000 people here;

              And:

              (1)1 000 000 have 95% of the money
              (2)40 000 000 have 2 %
              (3)all the rest have the left 8%
              ...
              It kind of looks like the Brazilian economy is running at 105%! The only comparable feat Canada has managed is giving 110% when playing hockey.
              Last edited by Heresiologist; 08-02-2012, 03:54 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post

                Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
                ...
                We are around 200 000 000 people here;

                And:

                (1)1 000 000 have 95% of the money
                (2)40 000 000 have 2 %
                (3)all the rest have the left 8%
                ...
                It kind of looks like the Brazilian economy is running at 105%! The only comparable feat Canada has managed is giving 110% when playing hockey.
                Yikes, I was editing those rates while thinking of that: the actual rates are 95, 2, 3
                "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                Comment


                • #9
                  (1)1 000 000 have 95% of the money
                  (2)40 000 000 have 2 %
                  (3)all the rest have the left 3%
                  Some months ago, the government had a report sent to the press: they said the middle class was getting bigger. This is something to praise if you agree with the parameters:

                  - It is called middle class those who make from 150$ to 1000$ Month
                  which is 90% of (3 ).

                  Which tells me that I am a quite rich person!

                  There is no way to compare the economy of Canada, and the social issues over there with the things here. Even if things are getting worst up there, it will take a century or more of decay to reach the Brazilian level.
                  "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                  "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ...

                    [QUOTE=porcus_volans;253610]

                    When I'm here the things I dislike the most are:

                    The weather
                    Miserablist, sniping, cynical, corrupt politically biased press (I know, I read
                    The Guardian.....)


                    I read the online Guardian pretty routinely but when i was very ill one crazy night about early July 2011 the titles of the Newspaper seemed to be this strange thing :
                    The Growlien.
                    Maybe a strange way of getting to the heart of things.
                    ...i'll get my coat!
                    Last edited by Kymba334; 08-02-2012, 07:18 AM.
                    Mwana wa simba ni simba

                    The child of a lion is also a lion - Swahili Wisdom

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Still cannot believe I made that mistake with numbers!
                      "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                      "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
                        Still cannot believe I made that mistake with numbers!
                        An, c'ome on, what does it matter for Brazil, what harm does it do to such a great country?
                        Google ergo sum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
                          Still cannot believe I made that mistake with numbers!
                          You've also so far, when enumerating things Brazil is known for, forgotten to mention Capoeira.

                          Those guys are all over Vancouver. I don't think I've been to a street festival that didn't feature a Capoeira performance.

                          Choro music is also not unknown around here.

                          I thought the metal-ish band Soulfly was Brazilian too, but apparently not. Just as well, one (probably former) member once threatened to shoot a friend of mine in her sleep.
                          Last edited by Heresiologist; 08-02-2012, 10:42 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post

                            Choro music is also not unknown around here.

                            I thought the metal-ish band Soulfly was Brazilian too, but apparently not. Just as well, one (probably former) member once threatened to shoot a friend of mine in her sleep.
                            I think Choro is a rich form of music, not that I am quite fond of it though

                            Soulfly was created by former Sepultura Max Cavallera. He had many musicians working with them, among them, many Brazilians. It was back with the album "Roots" that Sepultura got lost for me, and I was not a big fan of Chaos AD either.

                            Weirdly, Sepultura started to add tribal and Brazilian natural natives music, capoeira music, Olodum drum-like rhythms in their music while at the same time using low end tunning and simplified pretty much their previous riffs.

                            I'd not be surprised if any member of Soulfly threatned a friend of yours.

                            Andreas Kisser, still Sepultura guitar player and main writer released a double cd, which is pretty cool. Lots of Brazilian elements, classical music and his great riffs. Way better than any Sepultura or Soulfly music.
                            "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                            "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hmmm... pros and cons of the UK... that's a hard one because it suggests that these things might be unique to the UK only, which I doubt is true... most places and people are fairly similar to my mind... But, off the top of my head

                              Pros:

                              Literature
                              Irony, cynicism... (rarer than it used to be)
                              History: from the neolithic to the Victorians and the early-mid 20th century
                              Folklore
                              Cricket
                              Ghost stories
                              BBC (just): well, Newsnight, World Service, R4... not much else
                              Eccentricity (a rare commodity these days)
                              British country side (what's left of it)
                              British seaside
                              Secularism: I think that the British working classes (well, in England at least) must be naturally the most secular demographic on the planet (perhaps with the exception of France) - alas I think this is on the slide
                              Urban foxes
                              Canals
                              Proper British pub and real ale
                              Fish and chips
                              Curry

                              Cons:

                              The entropy of intellect cause, I think, by a very poor education system and universally poor teaching
                              Deference to flag, monarchy, celebrity, class: it makes us very small
                              Lack of a second language
                              The lack of protection we give to preserving out town centres, our heritage, industry, agriculture and the general watering down of anything that could be called a distinct British culture
                              Chav culture
                              The death of bookshops
                              Over-population
                              Inequality
                              Reality TV and soap operas
                              Smoking ban
                              British summer (not because of the rain, but because of the humidity)
                              Health and safety
                              Conventionality
                              Party politics
                              Americanization
                              Club culture

                              Mixed blessings:

                              Anti-intellectualism: I partly like the fact that us Brits inherently distrust anyone who can read, it's part of our anti-authoritarianism, but at the same time it has created an environment that is toxic to culture, art and philosophy

                              At one point I'd have said music as a pro, but I'm just not as bothered about music any more and British music has turned to shit these days
                              forum

                              1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
                              2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
                              3. a public meeting place for open discussion

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