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Draft Coming Back?

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  • Guest's Avatar

    Draft Coming Back?

    I dunno?

    Here's one link:
  • Patrick
    Denizen of Moo Uria
    • Jun 2004
    • 135

    #2 was started to link all the news stories on Bush's plans for a draft, and provide a place where people can find non-biased reports and articles about the draft.

    Non-biased? Yeah right.


    • Dead-Air
      Eternal Champion
      • Jun 2004
      • 2737

      If there's anyone out there who would like to place a bet that Bush won't reinstate the draft if re-elected, please get ahold of me. The larger the bet, the better.

      Of course, I wouldn't probably wouldn't bet that Kerry won't either since he'd be inheriting a huge mess with troops getting killed regularly in two countries, spread thin everywhere, and undoubtedly extremely low enlistment. Since he says he wouldn't pull out, that will leave one other option before too long.
      My Facebook; My Band; My Radio Show; My Flickr Page; Science Fiction Message Board


      • Guest's Avatar

        I know that several prominant Democrats, including Charlie Rangel, fully support the draft idea. We'll be sold out by both sides in this regard...


        • Bill
          Champion of the Balance
          • Feb 2004
          • 1063

          "I know that several prominant Democrats, including Charlie Rangel, fully support the draft idea. We'll be sold out by both sides in this regard..."

          Many in the military, Rep and Dem alike, have been advocating a form of the draft (not in the same manner as in the early 70's, but some sort of service program) for some time. Recruiting is starting to be a no-win situation.

          If it's going to happen, it is going to happen in a bi-partisan manner.


          • Doc
            Eternal Champion
            • Jan 2004
            • 3630

            I think it's a matter of when and how, not if.

            I don't think we'll see a draft like the past. Instead, I think we'll see some "draft alternatives"-- community service, public works, etc...-- as another option.

            What concerns me a little is what this will really do to the armed forces, especially if troops aren't sent into combat. I know how crappy morale can sometimes be with all vounteer forces, especially on the days (or weeks) when you feel like you're not doing anything. I can see some people getting drafted, taken away from their homes and lives, and then not being able to find a purpose for why they are where they are. It is very likely tol turn out to be more like a prison sentence than anything else, and I'm sure that will engender a great deal of extra resentment. I'm not saying I want to send troops to combat to give them a purpose, nor am I saying that morale would necessarily be better for drafted combat troops. I'm just considering my own experiences with good ol' Uncle Sam.


            • Guest's Avatar

              Toto, we aren't in Kansas anymore.

              One wonders if draftees would have a "nationalizing" effect that the neocons (AKA Zionist Occupation Government) and the New World Order types would like to avoid. That is to say, a democratized army would be a national army, which might tend to focus more moms, dads and voters on their own interests, rather than the interests of the militray-industrial complex, the oil companies, the Sauds, and the Likkud party, who together constitute what we might call NWOCMED, or the "New World Order Committee, Middle-East Division."

              Nation states do not wage wars on abstractions like "terror", they wage war on civilian populations, right down in there where they work and breed. Muuagh-ha-ha-ha!

              So bring on the draft. What better way to bring on nationalization and the disolution of the NWOCMED.

              As the Wicked Witch of the West said, "My plans are come together, purrr-fec-tly." :twisted:


              • McTalbayne
                Eternal Companion
                • Jan 2004
                • 557

                All i know is that im going to be going to prison, because im not fighting in any wars. Human beings are human beings and just because someone lives in another country doesnt make their life any more or less valuable.
                It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.


                • Guest's Avatar

                  Does the phrase "zionist occupation government" border on hate speech? I would say it is offensive to me, and I'm not even Jewish...


                  • L'Etranger
                    Veteran Moorcockista
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 4772

                    Just use the "ignore troll"-button, my friend. Reactions lead only to quagmire ...
                    Google ergo sum


                    • Guest's Avatar

                      Originally posted by Anonymous
                      Does the phrase "zionist occupation government" border on hate speech? I would say it is offensive to me, and I'm not even Jewish...
                      Hate speech? No. Doubleplusungood crimethink? Definately. Send Dorothy back to Kansas for re-education.


                      • PsychicWarVeteran
                        Flesh Bag of Mostly Water
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 2554

                        I agree. It's not hate speech, per se, but it definitely is below the standard we try to hold here.
                        "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                        --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars


                        • A_Non_Ymous
                          • Jul 2004
                          • 2659

                          Originally posted by Doc
                          I think it's a matter of when and how, not if.

                          I don't think we'll see a draft like the past. Instead, I think we'll see some "draft alternatives"-- community service, public works, etc...-- as another option.
                          Could be you're right, and perhaps that wouldn't be completely dreadful, but it
                          wouldn't fulfill the prime requirement for a draft these days, which is the need
                          for soldiers. This is an inevitable consequence of engaging in a foreign policy
                          that considers "cabinet wars" (to use Frederick the Great's expression) a logical
                          extension or replacement for diplomacy. :-]

                          I'm old enough to remember the nastiness in Vietnam and the associated draft.
                          That, too, was essentially a "cabinet war." The country was divided, many people
                          didn't want to serve and didn't (by various means), and the general level of morale
                          wasn't very high.

                          Take a look at the attitudes of the reservists being called up now, or the National
                          Guard units being pressed into service. Desertions and refusals to serve are becoming
                          more and more common. Many of these guys say they didn't go into the National
                          Guard with this sort of thing in mind. Pressing these guys into service isn't an
                          effective solution; it may wind up destroying the National Guard -- something to
                          think about the next time they're needed in a stateside emergency.

                          Historical parallels are always slippery, but I see some with the Roman Empire during
                          the collapse of the Republic and the advent of the Emperors. One hopes it's an
                          illusory similarity.



                          • DeeCrowSeer
                            Eternal Champion
                            • Feb 2004
                            • 2214

                            Obviously I don't have any political insight on whether or not your government will bring back the draft, but I do have more banal personal reflection. Woohoo!!

                            Every time November 11th comes around, and at various other times throughout the year, I think about the veterans of various wars and wonder what I would do if I were ever called up to "serve". I am a pacifist, and a coward, so I would never wish to be put in a position where I was pointing a gun at some random chap... or pushing a button which might nuke a village. On the other hand, if we were facing an enemy likes the again, I'd want to do something to help. I can't drive, but sometimes objectors were allowed to drive ambulances or something, weren't they? I'd rather not meet up with refugees from a country that was invaded and have to explain that while my fellow countrymen were liberating them from death camps, I was sat in a prison watching "Hair" and patting myself on the back. But in the case of wars I didn't support, or couldn't see any particular purpose in, such as the current conflict in Iraq, my response might be different... and I hear Canada looks lovely this time of year! Do they still have units that put on plays and musicals? I might go for that, if it was still an option.

                            I've always rolled my eyes when members of the older generation talk about bringing back National Service, but I wonder what effect it might have had on me. Although I used to enjoy being submissive to authority figures, I get the feeling that I would probably be the one following Gomer Pile's example in Full Metal Jacket if I ever ended up being shouted at 24 hours a day and sent through assault courses, etc. Does this mean that today's "young adults" are softer than previous generations? Well, I'm probably an exception. Elsewhere on this forum we were asked to think about "responsibilities" as well as our "rights", which is fair enough... if there were a scheme similar to the one in France where we had to help keep cities clean and so forth as part of our civic duty, then I'd probably knuckle down with the minimum of whining, but it's hard to break out of that "Well, they completely ignored my protests about the war, so why should I do anything for the government?" mentality. Not that my opinion as a military or political analyst is worth anything, so I'm not surprised my local MP ignored it, but it's hard not to be a little "told you so" now that things seem far more complicated and protracted than the spin was suggesting before "we" went into Iraq. I'll admit that I'm a very selfish, lazy and unmotivated citizen. I'm not sure if I'm the exception or the rule as such, and there's no way to know which way I would have jumped if I'd been alive in the 40s.

                            Um... okay, I'll shut up again now.

                            "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild


                            • Kitsune
                              Guardian of the Grail
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 415

                              I now some countries have mandatory service as a requirement for full citizenship. I don't think we could pull that off here in the US, but it might be helpful if we required some sort of community service; if handled correctly this could give young adults a better sense of community and help them feel as if they are a part of something bigger than themselves.