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London/English Riots

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  • #91
    Had this article courtesy of brother McCabe:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011...punk-pop-riots

    Punk spoke up for angry kids. Why won't today's bands follow suit?


    I hate to agree with a 'kids today' type of thing, but I think theres some validity here, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of a politcal dimension to these riots - maybe because the people involved are completely disempowered and have been led to believe (by right wing politicians) that political solutions to their problems are impossible.

    Culturally they grew up in the dead zone, deep enough into the post reagan and thatcher era (post corporate takeover) that they are completely indoctrinated into the consumer ethos - convenience and 'value'. They want STUFF now and they want it for free. The same values as the other castes, only their frustration is expressed differently.

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    • #92
      After the starm there must be a calming (D Dekker)

      Now it's all over we hope: it's raining now and having seen a rac(ist) riot in person as well as most on the news since about '75, I very much agree with Mike hot weather is a big factor.
      I actually feel a bit encouraged about England after it all.
      I make it 5 people killed, which is worse than the 1980-1 riots (at most 2) and of course appalling. But to put it in perspective, each time a big real storm hits us, about 3-6 people are killed by falling trees etc.

      (Bloody trees eh? Chop them all down and make them do National Service as warships. Worked in Nelson's day. Only language they understand.)

      But to be serious, it was a wake-up call and not just for (sigh) politicians. Look at the sudden spontaneous mobilisation of anti-riot local groups, in larger numbers than the rioters.
      The police were less than impressed that in one area the English Defence League turned up (and went straight on the piss!) but even in white groups I'm tempted to agree with Winston for the first time in ages: "If there is hope, it lies with the proles."
      But particularly universal praise on all sides for the Asian bloke at the very heart of 3 of the deaths calming people down - after his own son had been run down and killed.
      That the likes of the Daily Mail hailed him as a hero - and to be fair to them they also said about the original incident it looks like the police did shoot their own radio - doesn't invalidate what he did. And I'm not sure it would have happened in the 1960s-70s Mail. Progress?

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      • #93
        The Mail sometimes gets a bad review, but it does do some things right and the Stephen Lawrence was one such campaign.
        Papa was a Rolling Stone......

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        • #94
          America isn't all the way screwed yet. Anti-Flag is playing Bumbershoot. The Dropkicks are also very political. A scene, it ain't, but, thefires aren't out yet. England's got Bragg. Anything hot in Scotland?
          Kevin McCabe
          The future is there, looking back at us. Trying to make sense of the fiction we will have become. William Gibson

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          • #95
            The other month I was wandering though my wee Scottish town (the capital, yes), and saw this bloke with a new T-shirt with the nifty slogan "I still hate Thatcher". The vibe here is as always: we culturally don't like selfishness, nor respect those that have gained by it.

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            • #96
              I want that T-shirt Rothgo.
              If i cant track it down i'll have one made so i can wear it down at my mate Sandys freemason lodge of a Friday night just to wind the closet tories up!
              "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

              Hunter S Thompson

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              • #97
                Originally posted by thingfish View Post
                I want that T-shirt Rothgo.
                If i cant track it down i'll have one made so i can wear it down at my mate Sandys freemason lodge of a Friday night just to wind the closet tories up!
                Steady on, TF! You might cause a riot........

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                • #98
                  Some really interesting points of view here.

                  I do feel living in england and struggling to find work at the moment, despite several years experience and qaulifications, that the poor are getting poorer (it seems a cliche I know). I cant comment on whether the rich are getting richer as there doesnt seem to be many around...

                  I think some of the reactions from the government have been disgraceful. David Cameron told the magistrates to give harsh sentences and ignore the rules - the problem is - law in england is based on precedent. A court cant just hand down sentences willy-nilly because of public outrage - it has to follow guidlines. I think this is how a court of law should work in a democracy.

                  The result of Mr.Camerons knee jerk reaction is that all these cases are now being overturned. The people who have done some actually really bad things (the triple murder and shooting at police in birmingham for example) may not be prosecuted properly because the law has lost its integraty (in this example)

                  Anyway thats my rant, sorry for any spelling/grammer mistakes.

                  Also Michael Moorock mentioned in his post he is working on a book, please tell more! Another one for my collection! Ever thought of using a character called Thomas Norton? (haha thats my real name by the way - worth a try - who wouldnt want to be in a Moorcock story?)
                  Please Check out my Musical Dedication to work of Michael Moorcock

                  THE END OF ALL SONGS
                  We are looking to collaborate with anybody else interested in making Moorcock themed music - contact me here or on soundcloud.

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                  • #99
                    Hi MO, here's some details about the book:

                    http://www.multiverse.org/fora/showt...ispering+swarm

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                    • Originally posted by Rothgo View Post
                      The other month I was wandering though my wee Scottish town (the capital, yes), and saw this bloke with a new T-shirt with the nifty slogan "I still hate Thatcher". The vibe here is as always: we culturally don't like selfishness, nor respect those that have gained by it.
                      Funny thing about that shirt.

                      "I still hate Thatcher".

                      Kind of ironic isn't it? That a person is self centered enough, or "selfish" to think that by portraying this statement on their chest, somehow endears them to the "unselfish".

                      Afterall... making the statement that "I" am "for or against" something is quite selfish, in its' own right.

                      As if anyone else should/would care what "I" think?

                      However, "I" am selfish enough to declare that "you" should care, since I took the time to buy and don this t-shirt!

                      I mean, the totally "selfless" wouldn't put their opinions out for the world to see in such an egotistical manner, if they 'truly' were selfless.

                      They wouldn't draw attention to the "I", now would they?
                      Last edited by Vazkar Asquinol; 08-31-2011, 06:31 PM.
                      "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein

                      "If I accept you as you are, I will make you worse; however, if I treat you as though you are what you are capable of becoming, I will help you become that." -Johann Wolfgang Goethe

                      "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind." -Thomas Jefferson

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                      • Originally posted by Vazkar Asquinol View Post
                        Originally posted by Rothgo View Post
                        The other month I was wandering though my wee Scottish town (the capital, yes), and saw this bloke with a new T-shirt with the nifty slogan "I still hate Thatcher". The vibe here is as always: we culturally don't like selfishness, nor respect those that have gained by it.
                        Funny thing about that shirt.

                        "I still hate Thatcher".

                        Kind of ironic isn't it? That a person is self centered enough, or "selfish" to think that by portraying this statement on their chest, somehow endears them to the "unselfish".

                        Afterall... making the statement that "I" am "for or against" something is quite selfish, in its' own right.

                        As if anyone else should/would care what "I" think?

                        However, "I" am selfish enough to declare that "you" should care, since I took the time to buy and don this t-shirt!

                        I mean, the totally "selfless" wouldn't put their opinions out for the world to see in such an egotistical manner, if they 'truly' were selfless.

                        They wouldn't draw attention to the "I", now would they?
                        Don't worry, plenty of people would still get the message. Including me.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rothgo View Post
                          The other month I was wandering though my wee Scottish town (the capital, yes), and saw this bloke with a new T-shirt with the nifty slogan "I still hate Thatcher".
                          It does, however, put me in mind of this fable:

                          Two Buddhist Monks were on a journey, one was a senior monk, the other a junior monk. During their journey they approached a raging river and on the river bank stood a young lady. She was clearly concerned about how she would get to the other side of the river without drowning.

                          The junior monk walked straight past her without giving it a thought and crossed the river on his own. The senior monk however picked up the woman and carried her across the river. He placed her down, they parted ways with woman and on they went with the journey.

                          As the journey went on, the senior monk could see some concern on the junior monk's mind, he asked what was wrong. The junior monk replied, "How could you carry her like that? You know we can't touch women, it's against our way of life". The senior monk answered, "I left the woman at the river's edge a long way back, why are you still carrying her?"
                          "They went into the house and were soon rolling about in bed together." - The Wrecks of Time, James Colvin, 1966

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                          • In this case, you only have to look at the state of the Global economy and disintegrating social infrastructure in various Western countries to realise that we are all still carrying the old hag.

                            The stuff of nightmares.

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                            • Originally posted by Pietro_Mercurios View Post
                              In this case, you only have to look at the state of the Global economy and disintegrating social infrastructure in various Western countries to realise that we are all still carrying the old hag.

                              The stuff of nightmares.
                              You can't blame all of the world's ills on "That Bloody Woman" (as she was known in my Granparents' household). Laissez faire economics was a well understood and documented doctrine before she implemented it in the UK in the 1980s.

                              However, the desctruction of whole communities in the UK as a direct result of the closure of state subsidised heavy industry and a subsequent lack of investment to replace them are directly down to her and her policies.

                              Abandoning Liverpool to the ravages of uncontrolled unions, police brutality and competition from Europe was a sin for which she (along with the unions and Derek Bloody Hatton) will always be remembered in my house and I would wear an "I Hate Margaret Thatcher" t-shirt with pride.

                              I could be unselfish and wear a "We Hate Margaret Thatcher" t-shirt but my brother's a rampant Tory so it would be patently untrue.

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                              • Check out some of these t-shirts

                                http://redmolotov.com/

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