Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to Moorcock's Miscellany

Dear reader,

Many people have given their valuable time to create a website for the pleasure of posing questions to Michael Moorcock, meeting people from around the world, and mining the site for information. Please follow one of the links above to learn more about the site.

Thank you,
Reinart der Fuchs
See more
See less

Identify this US Leftist

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Rob Hansen
    Guardian of the Grail
    • Dec 2010
    • 476

    Identify this US Leftist

    Here's a little pop quiz for you. Who said the following:

    "But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything--even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon "moderation" in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

    Clearly this is someone to the left of Present Obama, but who? Answer below:

  • Morgan Kane
    Lost in the multiverse
    • Jun 2006
    • 1428

    #2
    Eisenhower was the first important man in the U.S.A. to use the term military industrial complex.

    And he was taking a moral point of view also .....

    http://www.h-net.org/~hst306/documents/indust.html

    Comment

    • Wolfshead
      Itinerent player of pasteboards
      • Sep 2008
      • 883

      #3
      Just a 411, stole your post and reprinted on my blog. A lot of my friends take a very conservative viewpoint and I figured to shake them up a bit.
      herb

      Man spends his time on devising a more idiot proof computer. The universe spends its time devising bigger idiots. So far the universe is winning.

      http://www.wolfshead.net/wolfshowl


      http://www.wolfshead.net/books

      Comment

      • Rob Hansen
        Guardian of the Grail
        • Dec 2010
        • 476

        #4
        Originally posted by Wolfshead View Post
        Just a 411, stole your post and reprinted on my blog. A lot of my friends take a very conservative viewpoint and I figured to shake them up a bit.
        Fine by me. I stole it from my wife's blog.

        Comment

        • Vazkar Asquinol
          Champion of the Balance
          • Oct 2007
          • 1603

          #5
          I strongly disagree that D.D.E. is *left* of Obama and I think your using this singular quote to make that assertion is off base and presumptuous.

          That quote was made at a very different time in our Countries history. Before Social Security was raided by the *Fed* and exposed as the "ponzi scheme" that it is. Before the depth of effect of the "baby boomer" impact was known.

          I am sorry... but Obama is the most "unreasonable" President this country has ever elected.

          While I agree that the "rule of reason" is very important and should be applied to full effect, Obama is not that man.

          Voltaire was a man of "reason". Was he not?

          More to come.
          "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein

          "If I accept you as you are, I will make you worse; however, if I treat you as though you are what you are capable of becoming, I will help you become that." -Johann Wolfgang Goethe

          "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind." -Thomas Jefferson

          Comment

          • opaloka
            digital serf 41221z/74
            • Jun 2006
            • 3746

            #6
            Some of my favorite IKE quotes:

            Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be, instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect. Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.
            In most communities it is illegal to cry "fire" in a crowded assembly. Should it not be considered serious international misconduct to manufacture a general war scare in an effort to achieve local political aims?

            Comment

            • Wolfshead
              Itinerent player of pasteboards
              • Sep 2008
              • 883

              #7
              Originally posted by Vazkar Asquinol View Post
              I strongly disagree that D.D.E. is *left* of Obama and I think your using this singular quote to make that assertion is off base and presumptuous.

              That quote was made at a very different time in our Countries history. Before Social Security was raided by the *Fed* and exposed as the "ponzi scheme" that it is. Before the depth of effect of the "baby boomer" impact was known.

              I am sorry... but Obama is the most "unreasonable" President this country has ever elected.

              While I agree that the "rule of reason" is very important and should be applied to full effect, Obama is not that man.

              Voltaire was a man of "reason". Was he not?

              More to come.
              And how is Obama "unreasonable"? It was the GOP in control when anyone who disagreed with the President's policies was called unpatriotic or traitor. It was the GOP in control who threatened to go nuclear and try and ban the filibuster as a tool of the legislature. It was the GOP in control that rushed in to a war that had no purpose, or should I say too many purposes before they finally decided on which excuse they were going to use, and spent like druken sailors without regard for what the debt would do to this country. It was the GOP in control when all the regulations to contol the financial institutions were thrown out the window said deregulation leading to the biggest financial meltdown since the Great Depression. And since they lost that control they have done nothing but complain about Obama's policies, tried to place the blame for the results of their failed policies on his administration and have dug in their heels and resisted every attempt to come up with compromise that he has asked of them, the health care plan, financial regulation plan and the latest budget being just a few examples. They complain about deficits, something they forgot about the last decade yet they insist on keeping tax cuts for those most able to afford to pay. And you call Obama unreasonable?
              herb

              Man spends his time on devising a more idiot proof computer. The universe spends its time devising bigger idiots. So far the universe is winning.

              http://www.wolfshead.net/wolfshowl


              http://www.wolfshead.net/books

              Comment

              • Rob Hansen
                Guardian of the Grail
                • Dec 2010
                • 476

                #8
                Originally posted by Vazkar Asquinol View Post
                I strongly disagree that D.D.E. is *left* of Obama and I think your using this singular quote to make that assertion is off base and presumptuous.
                Really? I'm surprised. The Overton Window has moved sufficiently far to the right that I didn't think this was a particularly controversial observation. I mean, could you see a politician of *either* party today warning of the dangers of "the military-industrial complex" like Ike did? I can't.

                Voltaire was a man of "reason". Was he not?
                All I remember about Voltaire is the story of his final words. A life-long atheist, he was lying on his deathbed when his family sent in the local priest in an attempt to save his soul before he breathed his last.

                "Do you abjure the Devil and all his works?" intoned the priest.

                Voltaire opened one eye, looked up and - before expiring - said:

                "Now is hardly the time to be making enemies."

                Comment

                • Vazkar Asquinol
                  Champion of the Balance
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 1603

                  #9
                  I should know better than to get into these "debates" on this forum.

                  However, sometimes I just can't resist!

                  How is Obama unreasonable, you ask?

                  Oh geez. Pretty much every word that comes out of his mouth is a lie or fabrication. His policies DO NOT WORK.

                  If they did then we would not have +9% unemployment. Which, in reality is more like 15% when you take into account the number of folks that have exhausted their unemployment benefits.

                  Raising taxes is not going to reduce the deficit... nor will it help reduce the National debt, which is +5 Trillion since Obama took office.

                  His foreign policy is a disaster. Look at the mess he is causing with his unreasonable demands of Israel.

                  Look folks. I am no fan of the GOP. However, I am even less of a fan of Obama.

                  There really is no point in us getting into a detailed discussion about "Who is responsible for what".

                  I am most certain I will not change any of your minds and I know for a fact you wont change mine, as far as this topic is concerned.

                  Anyways, I need to run. We are starting a farm and my wifes chicken peeps just arrived at the Post Office and we have to go pick them up.
                  "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein

                  "If I accept you as you are, I will make you worse; however, if I treat you as though you are what you are capable of becoming, I will help you become that." -Johann Wolfgang Goethe

                  "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind." -Thomas Jefferson

                  Comment

                  • Rothgo
                    Champion of the Unbalanced
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 6663

                    #10
                    Now there's a topic for a thread VA: staring a farm? Top notch!

                    Any experience in the family? Book or practical knowledge? Don't answer here (well, do if you like, but I'll thread split if you do! ), but this is something well worth chewing the fat over.

                    Comment

                    • Wolfshead
                      Itinerent player of pasteboards
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 883

                      #11
                      Obviously i'm not going to change you POV especially when you put the 9% unemployment rate at Obama's feet. I took over a decade of policy making to bring about the deregulation that caused the financial meltdown and yet you expect Obama to cure that in 2 years. The unemployment situation caused by the Great Depression took almost 20 years to rectify and then only because of WW II. That's the problem, people expected Obama to wave a magic wand and cure all ills. Don't work like that.

                      And you are right, raising taxes alone will not cut the deficit nor reduce the Debt. Cutting them isn't going to do it either. Hell, even some of the architchets of the great proponent of trickle down have come out saying it's a failed policy. It takes what both Bush ver. 1 and Clinton were both willing to do, cut spending and raise taxes to make it happen. Unfortunately Obama was left in a situation where he needed to spend to avoid an even greater financial meltdown than we have experienced.

                      As for every word out of someone's mouth being a lie where are the term limits and balanced budgets we were promised. The GOP had a dozen years of legislative control, 8 of them with executive control as well and we still have the same dynastys running things and balanced budgets have been a joke in this century.

                      Yes, I believe in balanced budgets, term limits and spending cuts. I vote for people, not parties but I do have a problem with someone getting a bad rap for situations beyond their control. Yea, there are things Obama should be doing and be criticized for not doing but the stuff I keep hearing about aren't those things, they were problems left on his doorstep like crap in a bag on Mischief Night and the perpetrators of the gag are now blaming him for the smell.
                      herb

                      Man spends his time on devising a more idiot proof computer. The universe spends its time devising bigger idiots. So far the universe is winning.

                      http://www.wolfshead.net/wolfshowl


                      http://www.wolfshead.net/books

                      Comment

                      • Vazkar Asquinol
                        Champion of the Balance
                        • Oct 2007
                        • 1603

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Wolfshead View Post
                        Obviously i'm not going to change you POV especially when you put the 9% unemployment rate at Obama's feet. I took over a decade of policy making to bring about the deregulation that caused the financial meltdown and yet you expect Obama to cure that in 2 years. The unemployment situation caused by the Great Depression took almost 20 years to rectify and then only because of WW II. That's the problem, people expected Obama to wave a magic wand and cure all ills. Don't work like that.

                        And you are right, raising taxes alone will not cut the deficit nor reduce the Debt. Cutting them isn't going to do it either. Hell, even some of the architchets of the great proponent of trickle down have come out saying it's a failed policy. It takes what both Bush ver. 1 and Clinton were both willing to do, cut spending and raise taxes to make it happen. Unfortunately Obama was left in a situation where he needed to spend to avoid an even greater financial meltdown than we have experienced.

                        As for every word out of someone's mouth being a lie where are the term limits and balanced budgets we were promised. The GOP had a dozen years of legislative control, 8 of them with executive control as well and we still have the same dynastys running things and balanced budgets have been a joke in this century.

                        Yes, I believe in balanced budgets, term limits and spending cuts. I vote for people, not parties but I do have a problem with someone getting a bad rap for situations beyond their control. Yea, there are things Obama should be doing and be criticized for not doing but the stuff I keep hearing about aren't those things, they were problems left on his doorstep like crap in a bag on Mischief Night and the perpetrators of the gag are now blaming him for the smell.
                        Ok, to be fair here I am going to point out a few things that President Obama promised, and turned out to have lied about, that are in his control.

                        Closing Gtimo. Obama promised to close Gitmo during the campaign. It is still open and Obama has stated he has no intention of closing it.

                        Getting out of Iraq and Afganistan. We are still there, will be for some time and on top of all that we are now in Libya.

                        Speaking of Libya, Obama said that we would only be involved for "days, not weeks". Well, we have now been involved for more than 60 days, which is in direct violation of the "War Powers Resolution of 1973".

                        You most certainly will not see me defend the GOP and their policies, however I do think it is only fair to call out Obama on the things he deserves to be called out on. Afterall, look at the way Bush was treated.

                        Why does Obama get a pass on the same things that people lambasted Bush about?

                        His fiscal policies mirror what Bush started.

                        I didn't expect Obama to fix our economy in 2 years. However, I also did not expect him to make it worse. Well, actually, I did expect it based on his campaign, but no one listened to me then.

                        Unemployment went from around 5% +/- to over 9% +/- since Obama took office. National debt has skyrocketed. Deficit is worse. Inflation is soaring.

                        Bottom line is that in my eyes his policies did not work, on top of the blatant lies he told.

                        Now to be even more fair, pretty much all politicians lie, so it doesn't really suprise me that Obama turned out to be "just another politician".

                        If Obama would repeal the Patriot Act, dissolve the TSA and the ATF... that would go a long way in my eyes.
                        "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein

                        "If I accept you as you are, I will make you worse; however, if I treat you as though you are what you are capable of becoming, I will help you become that." -Johann Wolfgang Goethe

                        "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind." -Thomas Jefferson

                        Comment

                        • Rothgo
                          Champion of the Unbalanced
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 6663

                          #13
                          Yup, there are some severe disappointments with Obama: G'to and its evil-er twin Bagram being the strongest from my outsiders POV, though with the current state of the world economy, I'm not sure he's had time to deal with the expected consequences of the US banking collapse. Not sure he will either, but that's for US voters to decide, not me.

                          Comment

                          • opaloka
                            digital serf 41221z/74
                            • Jun 2006
                            • 3746

                            #14
                            People always cite Gitmo as a failure of the Administration, but in his first week in office Obama issued an excutive order to close Gitmo.

                            More and more I find myself in the uncomfortable position of defending a President, but the reason Gitmo is still open is because Congress refused to fund it's closure, and not only did they refuse to fund transporting terrorist suspects to American soil (and where else should they be tried?) the Republicans on many occasions sought to make it illegal for law enforcement to bring terrorists into the US.

                            All that is an ongoing situation with the Administration in favor of closing Gitmo, and since Congress's concerns about prisoner containment have been met, most of the remaining opposition comes from the Republicans, obviously for purely political reasons. Honestly there's not much else they can campaign on.

                            Comment

                            • opaloka
                              digital serf 41221z/74
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 3746

                              #15
                              VA, one can be against the war (though IIRC you were pretty keen on it) but Obama has done exactly what he said he would at the exact time he said he would do it. If people thought that all troops would be out of Iraq as opposed to 'combat troops' (the troops that remain are called 'support troops') they weren't paying attention, if they thought that there wouldn't be a strong commitment from Obama in Afghanistan, includng a troop escalation which he explicitly said he would do, they weren't paying attention.

                              Why does Obama get a 'pass'? Firstly, he doesn't, but where he does, it's because he is not stupid enough to start a land war on another continent.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X