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What is a Neo-Conservative, Mr Moorcock?

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  • What is a Neo-Conservative, Mr Moorcock?

    ...and are they like Tories, but only worse?

    :roll:
    \'You know my destiny?\' said Elric eagerly. \'Tell me what it is, Niun Who Knew All.\'
    Niun opened his mouth as if to speak but then firmly shut it again. \'No,\' he said. \'I have forgotten.\'

  • #2
    http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Neocon is a term for new conservatives -- in this argument mostly people who learned their politics as Trotskyites and Commies and then um
      flip-flopped, employing the techniques they learned there to promoting a different (right wing) authoritarianism. Some like to use Machiavelli as an example, some prefer Goebbels (in terms of his effective use of propaganda). In the view of many, the neocons have used the techniques of rumour spreading and blatant lying which got Hitler into power. They are the people, it's thought, who turned the Republican party into the efficient vote-catching machine it has become since Reagan.
      Reagan, who began as a left-winger and shifted over to the right in the course of his career, is not in the strict sense a neocon.
      The ones I've read are generally dumb but cunning. The Weekly Standard (owned by Rupert Murdoch, supporter of Tony Blair) is one of their regular organs. The American Conservative (which seeks to hold on to older Republican values) is not.

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      • #4
        Thanks!

        Hey Mr. M!

        I think that I know a thing or two, but did not know that definition. So, are you saying that the neocons were the 60s generation liberals that discovered money and power?

        I ask you this because as a 37 year old man I am painfully aware that the prosocial attitude that existed when I was a kid morphed into extreme capitalism. I often wonder how so many people could lose all of their ideals. Is that what neocons are, cynical former idealists?

        Comment


        • #5
          "I often wonder how so many people could lose all of their ideals. Is that what neocons are, cynical former idealists?"

          Just how are you defining "idealist"? I would consider myself a strong capitalist and a strong idealist (just, probably, different ideals than the average 60's liberal). Let's not talk about cynicism...

          Comment


          • #6
            Well Bill, brushing your teeth in the hope that they won't fall out is an ideal. So, I'm not impying that these people have lost all of their ideals just certain ones. Mr. M said that neocons are people that formerly had communist ideologies. Those are the ideals that I meant.

            There is a big difference between communist ideals and capitalist ideals. In the one camp people try to be equals and in the other its more of a pimp/whore kind of thing. You can figure out which is which.

            However, I don't know what is true about the neocon because I have just started to hear the terrm. More about that would be interesting.

            Comment


            • #7
              So, you could say it's like the Mendlesohn New Labour he left in place, despite being politically disgraced or am I socio-politically naive?

              Anyway, thanks for the definitive definintion.

              \'You know my destiny?\' said Elric eagerly. \'Tell me what it is, Niun Who Knew All.\'
              Niun opened his mouth as if to speak but then firmly shut it again. \'No,\' he said. \'I have forgotten.\'

              Comment


              • #8
                Idealists, perhaps, but I'm saying they've swapped one form of authoritarian political belief system for another. Both tend to believe in spreading 'the faith' by force of arms if necessary, whether it's Marxist communism or so'called free-market capitalism. But as Robert F. Kennedy succinctly puts it -- what they call free-market capitalism is actually pretty much the opposite of that. It's a form of corporate
                impositional capitalism.

                Comment


                • #9
                  "There is a big difference between communist ideals and capitalist ideals. In the one camp people try to be equals and in the other its more of a pimp/whore kind of thing. You can figure out which is which. "

                  I'm tired of this. I really am. This is not objective, this is not truth. This is the perception of someone sympathetic to communism and antagonistic to captialist. One could easily categorize the two as "in one camp people are forced into identity suppresion and the stagnation that comes from risk with no reward and in the other people are encouraged to be individuals and to acheive their maximum potential. You can figure out which is which."

                  Capitalism need NOT be a pimp/whore relationship. Capitalism BECOMES a pimp/whore relationship when people allow themselves to become whores and/or when people allow themselves to settle for whores. It is no more a necessity or inevitability than communists all wear olive green uniforms.

                  Capitalism, when tempered with a moderate degree of goevrnment intervention in those areas that we don't want ther qualifications of a supply/demand impact (healthcare, fire/police, etc) is a very fair, very effective system that does much to lift the entire population.

                  This is going to piss some people off, but I consider the slander of capitalism as evil, imperialist, and negative in the same light as I consider the worst of racial or religious stereotyping. And, interestingly enough, the inspiration for such slurs are probably quite similar.

                  Comment


                  • #10


                    We'll tire 'em out, and then we'll blast 'em!


                    Historically, the corporations have driven the world to shit, and then the democrats/nationalists/progressives wrest back control and kick butt:

                    Napoleon
                    Sitting Bull
                    Mexicans
                    Spainairds
                    Germans
                    Germans (again)
                    Japanese

                    Next up: A-rabs.

                    Bush's 'war on terror' is going to be a pick-a-nick compared to the genocide that's coming. Think the west can afford a twenty-year 'war' that's a front for corporate blood suckers? Think Russia can tolerate any more attacks? Think the earth can support more billions of people? Get real. And all these "conservative" talk show hosts calling for sedition laws to repress dissenters are going to see the tables turned, and imagine the look on their faces when the troopers grab them with ice tongs and throw their arses in the lime pit!

                    Bottom line: Rat fink corporate types are going to get a rude awakening when they learn just what the power of the state is all about!

                    I can't wait to see it. Just for laughs, if not also to see about half the human race blown the fuck off this planet!

                    And that's where the rubber meets the road!

                    Charie is out there, waiting, biding his time. Make no mistake!


                    Charlie's Pledge

                    I pledge alliegence to the power of the state
                    And swear this my oath to exterminate
                    The enemies of civilization:
                    Capitalist ideologues and their running dogs,
                    Corporate pirates,
                    Fuzzy-chined garanola eating students
                    Sporting backpacks and floppy Birkenstocks
                    Who roll their cigarettes and think they are Trotsky
                    Or Camus, and hang out with ugly
                    Hairy girlfriends in baggy pants,
                    Fundamentalist imposters and charletons,
                    Bible bashing pre-verters of the Protestant religion,
                    And Catholics because the pope is anti-christ
                    And his sweaty, fat priests bu-fu the boyscout down the street
                    And jammy orthodox Jews, too, just because they
                    Wear funny hats and think they are chosen by G-d
                    To 'Pick a pocket or two/ Oh, you got to pick a pocket or two'
                    And form a Likkud party that thinks 'fences do good neighbours make',
                    And especially slave-trading, Muslim wack-o male chauvinist pigs
                    Who think they can breed a race of suicide bombers:
                    They are going to eat nuke!
                    Take that, Sinbad!
                    Behold the death of a culture!
                    Mark well these words, they are of your eternal salvation!
                    Ecce Homo! Ecce Homo!
                    Behold the removal of one or two billion
                    Human beings from the southern hemisphere
                    Where the sewage runs in the streets
                    And they let flies crawl around
                    On their faces, and have other bad manners.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pyat
                      On their faces, and have other bad manners.
                      And don't forget they grow opium too, don't use deoderant, and don't have underwear neither.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In comunismt countries the prostitution would be state sponsered, so the government would be the pimp....

                        Just rember that some of us are more equal than others....

                        ps. Snowball did it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In Capitalist societies the prostitutes are free-lancers, the governments are still the pimps, I slowly come to think.
                          Google ergo sum

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                          • #14
                            The very idea of the government controlling pimps makes my blood crawl!

                            The Gipper said it best:

                            "Mr. Gorbachev, let your pimps go free!"

                            Comment


                            • #15


                              65% more likely to pop a cap in a pimp's ass than Bush.

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