WAR!

[LoE]

Check this site out...

http://forums.gawaher.com/index.php?act=ST&f=80&t=495&

this one...

http://www.robert-fisk.com/war_victims_pictures.htm

[Bill]

For those that aren't trial lawyers, THIS is the kind of thing that a judge would toss as "prejudicial", that is, having the intent of visceral response but bearing little or not at all on the facts in question.

[PsychicWarVeteran]

Yeah, well, I'm fully against Bush and his accursed war, but this kind of thing solves nothing. Like I'm so stupid I don't know people, including children, get blown up in war.

LoE, I feel you. Really, I do. I'm totally with you in the fight against the worst president this nation has ever seen, but Bill's right about this kind of thing. It's the wrong tack to take if you're trying to win people over.

Just my 2آ¢.

[LoE]

As long as there's Rupert Murdoch and Fox News, why the hell not?

http://www.outfoxed.org/

Have you seen it?

[PsychicWarVeteran]

No, but I plan to.

I really shouldn't. I'd love to just forget about the entire mess things have become, but it's like watching a horrible accident unfold -- I can't look away, even if I am quite possibly incabable of doing anything about it.

[Doc]

I think its the eventually apathy that feeds a lot of the media mess in which we find ourselves. We have stories crammed down our throats until we can't stand it anymore. When we reach our saturation point with a story, we start to tune out. When we tune out, the story becomes less important to news organizations because of declining ratings. When the event stops being reported, people start thinking its less important.

Is the Iraq war less important than six months ago? Of course not, but it doesn't lead the news anymore. Is the prison scandal less shocking than a few months ago? Of course not, but it is barely a footnote in the news.

This, of course, works out well for Bush, because many important things start to seem like non-issues. If he only has to put out the lastest fire to make people forget that he's doing a crappy job, he is much more likely to be re-elected.

If we don't want four more Bush years, I guess its our job to not let people forget the important issues.

[PsychicWarVeteran]

This, of course, works out well for Bush, because many important things start to seem like non-issues. If he only has to put out the lastest fire to make people forget that he's doing a crappy job, he is much more likely to be re-elected.

If we don't want four more Bush years, I guess its our job to not let people forget the important issues.

I'm with you Doc. It's why I keep this lousy soapbox around. I keep saying I'm going to get rid of it, but I just keep climbing back up onto it. I hope it ends up doing some good. Four more years of this sh*t I cannot abide.

[Jerico]

I really like your insight on politics, Doc.
I think you understand things very well!

I ordered and watched the Outfoxed DVD.
This is no Michael Moore documentary-- meaning
that it is NOT full of bias and propoganda-- but
just as damning of Fox and Murdoch as
Fahrenheit is to Bush.

It shows what a big asshole zealot Bill O'Reilly is with
his extreme partisanship. It shows Hannity (or is it Combs?
I don't care to know who exactly is who) saying
that Bush is going to win the election. Is he really a
journalist?
It shows how people with a differing viewpoint are
threatened with loud, bombastic language, and then
censored ("Turn off his mic!"). It shows how journalists
and guests with a view outside of the conservative right wing perspective
are chastized, cast aside and censored. It clearly shows how extremely skewed
and biased Fox News is with info straight from insiders,
specifically ex-employees. We're not talking about
one or two but more like 5 or more. It is filled with
footage of various Fox broadcasts, uncovering the obvious
bias, each commentator using same specific words such
as "some people believe..."
Is the English language so limited that "some people believe... ('insert your favorite Conservative Right Wing perspective here.')" is not such an unusual phrase for every broadcaster to mutter? I think not; there is instead an obvious agenda illuminated.
The footage of broadcasts do not lie.
It's quite disgusting. I wouldn't mind if
someone demolished their facilities.

[LoE]

Yes. It doesn't take much imagination to understand why war is something to be avoided.
However, the revealing of such images can show Americans who are strangers to such sights, who for the most part, have never witnessed such death, exactly why terrorism exists. Why there are legitimate reasons for America to be hated.

[Jerico]

I watched the HBO documentary Death in Gaza the other day.

It centered around several Palestinian kids living in the war-torn
streets of their hometown, under the oppression of the Israelis.
there was exactly what LoE described,
children throwing rocks at armored bulldozers and tanks.

People getting shot to death by Israeli military.

All of us are so lucky not to be born into such a "world."

[Trikazul]

Re: WAR!

Check this site out...

http://forums.gawaher.com/index.php?act=ST&f=80&t=495&

this one...

http://www.robert-fisk.com/war_victims_pictures.htm

Yeah, that's war. Not only the war in Afghanistan or Iraq - every war produces such pictures.

[Bill]

"This, of course, works out well for Bush,..."

No doubt, but it works well for ANY politician that might have, oh, I don't know, for example, a 19-year Senate voting record that he would want peoople to not scrutinize too much. Hypothetically, of course.

"It shows Hannity (or is it Combs? I don't care to know who exactly is who) saying that Bush is going to win the election. Is he really a journalist?"

What's your point? Any broadcaster that sys that Bush might win is not worthy of being a journalist?? You need to face some unpleasant facts: Bush has a legitimate and real shot of winning the coming election.

"It shows how people with a differing viewpoint are threatened with loud, bombastic language, and then censored ("Turn off his mic!"). It shows how journalists and guests with a view outside of the conservative right wing perspective are chastized, cast aside and censored."

Yeah! Tell it brother! I feel your pain!!! This is just like when I was called a Nazi and a baby-killer for even appearing to support Bush... oh, wait, you are talking about the opposite. Sorry. <You get the sarcasm, right?>

"It clearly shows how extremely skewed and biased Fox News is with info straight from insiders, specifically ex-employees. We're not talking about
one or two but more like 5 or more. It is filled with footage of various Fox broadcasts, uncovering the obvious bias, each commentator using same specific words such as "some people believe..." "

Aren't the people vilifying Fox the same people who defended Moore's right to his opinion, even in the face of clearly incorrect or misleading facts. Personally, I believe that Moore should be allowed to put out whatever he wants and face the consequewnces if his research isn't up to snuff, and Fox should be able to broadcast what it wants - agenda and all - and put the onus on the viewers to - god forbid! - do a little research.

"It's quite disgusting. I wouldn't mind if someone demolished their facilities."

So you are all for the idea that gives anyone who doesn't like your position the right to demolish your computer, right?

[Jerico]

Whatever , Bill.

I'm sure you saw Outfoxed right?

I know what irks you.

Let me say what I really feel.

Fox News is a group full of assholes.

I'm not a politician, so don't get so worked up.

Maybe I'll say what I really think about Republicans.

[Bill]

Go right ahead, it is what keeps this site interesting. I am just pointing out how some of this comes across. I know you think I am being pedantic about my reponse, but if you don't think that - in part - Bush got elected becuase of that type of response, you aren't paying attention.

Bush is for better or for worse, the head of the premier spin machine in the world today. DOes that make him invinsible? No way. It does make it harder to beat him, though, and to date Kerry ain't doing it. There is a whole section of people in this country, I believe, that want to do the right thing. But every time the "right thing" is pitched to them (and it could be a democratic OR republican initiative) it always has the whiff of agenda to it, and people get antsy.

I think people (not you particularly) should stop worrying what Fox is or is not broadcasting, or what Moore is or is not talking about in his movie, and pick up a book or newspaper in response to the information they are getting. Every time you hear a piece of information, try to corroborate it. It takes half a second on the internet these days. Al;though that is a half second less eBay time for some people...

Half of the arguments here would be over if people read the Wall Street Journal each day. Anybody see the article in the Journal about the labor shortages in China (as if there can be shortages with 1.4 BILLION people, but because of geography, there are)? It is forcing higher wages, shorter hours, and better working conditions. Kind of puts another spin on the whole "outsourcing" issue? Now, no one is arguing that the Journal doesn't have ITS agenda (just look at the title).

Anyone read "The Great Unraveling" by Paul Krugman? Sure it is pure anti-Bush vitroil, but Krugman is so smart, and so plugged into the global economy, that you buy into the arguments. I'm halfway through (although, since much of it is sourced from his New York Times articles, I have read much of it before) and right this moment, I can't BELIEVE anyone would vote for Bush again.

[PsychicWarVeteran]

Bush has a legitimate and real shot of winning the coming election.

I can't BELIEVE anyone would vote for Bush again.

Bill, I'm not trying to be an ass (and maybe I'm just being dense), but did Krugman get you to change your mind about Bush over the last two days or was that final comment full of sarcasm? I'm honestly trying to see what it is you like so much about Bush, but I don't want to bother anymore if you've finally seen the light.