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It Was 21 Years Ago Today

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  • It Was 21 Years Ago Today

    http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/hillsborough

    YNWA 96

  • #2
    Yep,a sad day PV.

    My respects.
    "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

    Hunter S Thompson

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    • #3
      Die for football... No commentary.
      Papi

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      • #4
        Less we forget as well.

        http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2523561.stm

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_Disaster

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrox_disaster
        Papa was a Rolling Stone......

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        • #5
          As many of you will no doubt know by now, I am a scouser and a passionate supporter of Liverpool FC. Today, after 23 years of fighting for the truth to be told, the families of the 96 people who died at Hillsborough on 15th April 1989, and all members of the Liverpool diaspora will be officially told what they already knew.

          For the last 3 years an independent panel have been reviewing 400,000 previously unpublished documents relating to that tragedy to try to get to the truth about what happened.

          Today they published their report.

          If you have a few minutes please watch the Prime Minister David Cameron's statement to the House of Commons regarding the report and the events of April 15th 1989.

          http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video/new...eron-statement

          And don't buy The Sun.

          96 YNWA

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          • #6
            23 years.

            Words cant convey the disgust and contempt i have for the yorkshire police and the sun and every other involved in those shameful lies.

            And for the families and friends of the deceased my undying respect.
            "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

            Hunter S Thompson

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            • #7
              Shameful, truly shameful. I've passed that link on.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by porcus_volans View Post

                If you have a few minutes please watch the Prime Minister David Cameron's statement to the House of Commons regarding the report and the events of April 15th 1989.

                http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video/new...eron-statement

                And don't buy The Sun.

                96 YNWA
                I wouldn't worry about trying to get people to watch it, PV, it's going to be all over every news channel tonight and on all the front pages tomorrow.

                I've downloaded the report itself, and it is depressing reading. The extracts from the police officers statements, both what they wrote, and what they were changed to, build a devastating case, but that was just one part of the whole sorry story. I'd always thought there was a cover-up, but seeing it all laid out like that is pretty shocking. And I'm speaking as someone who has always been fascinated by the Watergate scandal, and read just about everything I can on the subject.

                The report itself (only dipped into it so far) appears to be a model of clarity. It is well-written, clear and easy to understand. You get a feeling of: "Oh, yeah, this is what it is like when people aren't trying to lie, or conceal something. This is what it is like to hear the truth. I'd forgotten what that sounds like."
                Just as I would encourage everyone to read Animal Farm, as an example of good clear writing, I would encourage everyone to read this report - or if you don't want to read the whole thing, read the first 26 pages, which is the summary. You'll get the message.

                Also, the inquiry website (http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/), which has a copy (as in a scanned image) of every single document - every police report (with the crossings out visible), fax, document, memo - referred to by the inquiry report, is also incredibly well designed, clear and easy to navigate. It could be used as a case study in how to design that sort of website.

                My respect to the families.

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                • #9
                  One of the interesting aspects of this is that the report tells us very little that we didn't already know, but it does add detail to some of the things we did know.

                  We knew that the South Yorkshire police had doctored statements. We didn't know that the number of such statements was 164. That is 164 possible separate and deliberate attempts to pervert the course of justice.

                  We also knew that The Sun newspaper printed lies under the banner headline 'The Truth'. What we didn't know was that those lies were propagated by senior South Yorkshire police officers and the local Tory MP.

                  We knew that only 1 ambulance was allowed into the ground and onto the pitch whilst many more waited outside, prevented from getting anywhere near the dead and dying. What we didn't know was the extent of the meltdown of leadership amongst the emergency services that so exacerbated the disaster that was unfolding around them.

                  And most crucially of all, we knew that some victims may have still been alive in the makeshift morgue up to an hour after the disaster started. What we didn't know was that as many as 41 of the 96 people who died may have been alive for that period. That's 41 people who may, just may, have survived.

                  What the Hillsborough Independent Panel's report does do is put it all together and finally, officially, tell the whole story. It finally puts to bed all the lies and deceits that were told by officials of the state to deflect blame from themselves onto the much maligned and innocent Liverpool supporters.

                  Many people I know are looking at their feet, shuffling uncomfortably and wondering why Liverpool is still pursuing the issues that Hillsborough raises 23 years after it happened. Why can't we just let it rest? Are the families after compensation? Should they be going after individuals to be held accountable after all this time?

                  The report, brilliant though it is, is not the end. We still haven't got justice, we've simply got the truth. Justice after 23 years may be an uncomfortable concept for people to stomach, but it's still justice. The FA, Sheffield Wednesday FC, South Yorkshire police and other emergency services, the Coroner, some parts of the press and successive governments, all let down ordinary people going about their ordinary business. And yet, after 23 years and 96 lives, not one single individual has EVER been brought to book for what happened.

                  And one last point of note. This wasn't about fans of Liverpool FC seeking the truth and justice for their dead colleagues. This was about the city of Liverpool and the scouse diaspora pulling together to show the world that we are one community, despite different football allegiances, cliched media portrayals of us as lazy, work shy thieves and successive governments, especially that of Margaret Thatcher, trying to write our city off as an economic and cultural basket case. This was David Cameron's Big Society writ large.

                  Andy Burnham, the local Labour MP and former Minister for Culture, Media and Sport is the man who instigated the independent enquiry and finally put the wheels in motion to get to the truth. He's a scouser and he's one of the very few Everton fans who will be cheered to the rafters if he ever comes to Anfield.

                  Rant over.

                  YNWA 96

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                  • #10
                    If there is ever to be any hope for our model of society, the police simply cannot be allowed to be a law unto themselves: that is why it is vital that no matter how long it may take or how much it may cost, police corruption must never be allowed to be swept under the carpet.

                    That's why the current procedure* of early retirement for corrupt officers is a solution that enrages me: it's not about the money and never will be.


                    *based on an argument of "practicallity": officer off duty and out of force quickly and cheeply (though the last bit is seemingly rare in practise)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by porcus_volans View Post
                      We still haven't got justice, we've simply got the truth.
                      This. A hundredfold.

                      I'm not Liverpudlian so I wouldn't have the front to count myself as one of the 'We' but as a Not-We Hillsborough isn't just about the fans or the families of the fans or even Liverpool in general; it's about what happened to ninety-six human beings who went to a game of football and didn't get to come home to their families and loved ones afterwards. That's why we're all involved in Hillsborough, whether or not we're football fans. And that's why what the SYP and The Sun and the Establishment did afterwards is an affront to all of us and why David Cameron was right to give what amounted to an abject apology. But Hillsborough isn't over. Yesterday was not the end. It wasn't even the beginning of the end. It was, god willing, perhaps the end of the beginning.
                      _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                      _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                      _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                      _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

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                      • #12
                        And so, two weeks before the 25th anniversary, the second inquest on the Hillsborough disaster begins.

                        Hopefully, this time justice will be properly served, not just for the 96 people who died, but their families, friends, other Liverpool fans and, as David rightly pointed out above, decent people everywhere.

                        http://www.theguardian.com/football/...s-inquest-jury

                        http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...unts-criticism

                        As an aside, I was drinking with a Nottingham Forest fan at the weekend. Few people remember that Forest were the opposition that day and he was there, at the other end of the ground, watching it all unfold. He was deeply affected by it and didn't go to a match for two years afterwards.

                        So remember not just the 96 people who died but all the other people who were there and witnessed it.

                        And don't buy The Sun.

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                        • #13
                          Sorry to keep banging on about Hillsborough.

                          If you are a sports fan of any sort and have a club scarf to donate to a good cause you could do worse than send it here.

                          http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/late...bute-to-the-96

                          Thanks

                          PV

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                          • #14
                            A fresh(ish) Dundee FC scarf is on its way PV.
                            "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

                            Hunter S Thompson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks TF.

                              All this weekend's Premier and Football League games are kicking off seven minutes late as a mark of respect for the 96. The match was abandoned at 15:06 on the day and there will be an additional minute's silence.

                              I'm going to the Liverpool v Man City game on Sunday which I'm sure will be an emotional experience.

                              96 YNWA

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