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Terrorism

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  • Terrorism

    Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=14249

  • #2
    Yes.

    Be afraid. Fear will make you pliable, gullible and weak. Fear will make you think unamerican thoughts. Fear cuts through all reason and leaves only the shadow of the person behind.

    "It's not a matter of whether the war is not real, or if it is, Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact."

    Well...or to make a lot of money, and to further concentrate wealth and power amongst the already wealthy and powerful elite.

    I propose a simple remedy for this human problem - a small prayer:

    "I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
    Only I will remain."

    Comment


    • #3
      The men's behaviour was, perhaps, "bizarre", but the question is: Did she notice the Middle Eastern men because of their behaviour or did she notice their behaviour because they were Middle Eastern men?
      You can't spell "politically correct" without "correct".

      Comment


      • #4
        Isn't the whole point that they were acting suspiciously and were Middle Eastern in origin. As a Brit, I'm surprised at your equanimity on the subject of bombing. I was working in London when the IRA were bombing and believe me to combat terrorism one needs to be vigilant. It is not a crime to challenge the innocent, but could be to not challenge the guilty. I was challenged when carrying a sub-notebook computer by the rail police, I didn't feel it was a problem or that as a dialect speaking Devonshire lass I was being discriminated against.

        Comment


        • #5
          They should have been challenged, yes, though in that particular situation it may have been wise to not make the suspected bombers nervous. I just didn't like the tone of the column. Also, I think that innocent Middle Easterns (or Devonshire lasses for that matter) being regarded with suspicion or even hostility is such a sad consequence of terrorism. But I don't have all the answers, if any.

          It might also work the other way, you know, that people looking like ordinary tourists or whatever are not challenged, though they should have been. But let's hope not.
          You can't spell "politically correct" without "correct".

          Comment


          • #6
            I think one of the problems with PC thinking is everything becomes an "ism" and problem solving is shelved. The thing is solving problems should be done in a fair, non "ism" manner, whether it's sexism, ageism or racism, hence suspect must be approached by the authorities, if necessary and prudent, but not one the basis of racism or whatever.Good old "American know-how" applied in a low key, unheated way should get you folks thro' this, I'm sure.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm not sure what "know-how" is, but if it's anything like "common sense" I'm suspicious of it. It's always coloured by prejudice, in my opinion.

              In that particular situation I think it had been pc to ask the men what they were doing or ask them to take their seats or something. I still think that the question of whether she noticed their behaviour because of their looks or the other way around is valid, though. It's always good to question one's motives, so that they won't lead you to try problem solving at times when there is no problem, if you understand what I mean.

              What I particularly didn't like about the article was the ending. "But I wonder, if 19 terrorists can learn to fly airplanes into buildings, couldn't 14 terrorists learn to play instruments? ". What's the point of this piece of rhetoric other than frighten people and raise suspicious against people whom the police have interrogated without finding any substantial evidence against them? I might as well say that "if nazis could take control of an entire country and throw the whole world into war couldn't one of them learn how to write articles on terrorism, wink, wink, nudge, nudge." But that would be plain stupid.


              I'm neither British nor American, by the way, so maybe I'm just spoiled with feeling secure, etc... :?

              Welcome to the community, as I see that these are your first posts. :D
              You can't spell "politically correct" without "correct".

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't see how blowing up a plane in mid-air is going to be productive. Unless they gain control of the cockpit, its just like another plane crash. Now that people understand what terrorists are willing to do, they will fight them to the bitter end.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A fitting end to the fear-mongering...almost too perfect in terms of the dingbat arguments that others are trying to use to make you vote Republican. Yeah, Bush is the "peace president" - what a fucking joke!

                  When will the lies and xenophobia end? I am coming very close to hating americans. This is exactly the mixture of things that led to the holocaust - a bad economy coupled with a racial/ethnic group to hate and fear.

                  -------------------------------------------

                  AIR MARSHALS SAY PASSENGER OVERREACTED

                  http://www.kfi640.com/ericleonard.html

                  LOS ANGELES | July 22, 2004 - Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, "overreacted," to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.

                  The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane, according to a source close to the secretive federal protective service.

                  Jacobsen, a self-described freelance writer, has published two stories about her experience at womenswallstreet.com, a business advice web site designed for women.

                  "The lady was overreacting," said the source. "A flight attendant was told to tell the passenger to calm down; that there were air marshals on the plane."

                  The middle eastern men were identified by federal agents as a group of touring musicians travelling to a concert date at a casino, said Air Marshals spokesman Dave Adams.

                  Jacobsen wrote she became alarmed when the men made frequent trips to the lavatory, repeatedly opened and closed the overhead luggage compartments, and appeared to be signaling each other.

                  "Initially it was brought to [the air marshals] attention by a passenger," Adams said, adding the agents had been watching the men and chose to stay undercover.

                  Jacobsen and her husband had a number of conversations with the flight attendants and gestured towards the men several times, the source said.

                  "In concert with the flight crew, the decision was made to keep [the men] under surveillance since no terrorist or criminal acts were being perpetrated aboard the aircraft; they didn't interfere with the flight crew," Adams said.

                  The air marshals did, however, check the bathrooms after the middle-eastern men had spent time inside, Adams said.

                  FBI agents met the plane when it landed in Los Angeles and the men were questioned, and Los Angeles field office spokeswoman Cathy Viray said it's significant the alarm on the flight came from a passenger.

                  "We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals," she said. "The complaint did not stem from the flight crew."

                  Several people were questioned, she said, but no one was detained.

                  Jacobsen's husband Kevin told KFI NEWS he approached a man he thought was an air marshal after the flight had landed.

                  "You made me nervous," Kevin said the air marshal told him.

                  "I was freaking out," Kevin replied.

                  "We don't freak out in situations like this," the air marshal responded.

                  Federal agents later verified the musicians' story.

                  "We followed up with the casino," Adams said. A supervisor verified they were playing a concert. A second federal law enforcement source said the concert itself was monitored by an agent.

                  "We also went to the hotel, determined they had checked into the hotel," Adams said. Each of the men were checked through a series of databases and watch-lists with negative results, he said.

                  The source said the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsen's actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves.

                  Air marshals' only tactical advantage on a flight is their anonymity, the source said, and Jacobsen could have put the entire flight in danger.

                  "They have to be very cognizant of their surroundings," spokesman Adams confirmed, "to make sure it isn't a ruse to try and pull them out of their cover."

                  -------------------------------------------

                  Substantive, prudent measures could save lives. Stronger, locked doors on the cockpits of planes could help prevent future disasters like 911 - but the spectacle of blowing up a plane in flight may still attract some terrorists and they will always find a way to accomplish their goals. When your time is up you will die - and ultimately no anti-terrorist measures will likely stop those hellbent on causing mayhem. The difference between you and a would-be suicide-bomber is that the bomber intends to die and you might actually struggle to live - they can do anything because they are going to die anyway, and you are always going to worry about crap like how to fight them while sustaining the least damage and inconvenience. But in my view, you will know when push has come to shove and you will likely have time enough to act bravely or to prove yourself a coward living in fear.

                  The only good news in all of this is that everyone dies - so you aren't alone with that problem. But are you going to live life to the fullest in the meanwhile, or do you intend to die begging for your life on your knees? Do you intend to allow them to let you sacrifice a life worth living for the life of a coward? Because that's what is planned - the Patriot Acts are designed to take away what it means to be an american and to replace that good life with a life of fear and oppression.

                  And you will have done it to yourself.

                  But while you yet live are you going to live in fear? What the hell kind of plan is that? I won't go quite so far as the Epicurean oath to "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die" but c'mon - that makes far more sense than cowering in the shadows and trembling at every imagined fear. And if you read the above you would also realize that the author of the article that started this thread was practically running amok with her nonsense - she very nearly endangered others because she couldn't master her fear or xenophobia.

                  Yeah, those musicians were dangerous people alright...

                  Don't let them use your own fears against you to make you do stupid unamerican things. Buck up for fuck's sake - show some backbone! Quell your fears. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain by acting like a moron.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Terrorism

                    I thought long & hard before making this post as I don't want to come across as anti-American, but as an Englishman I feel a bit cynical about Americans' current obsession with terrorism. From the late 60's to the early 90's when bombings & shootings were happening in Britain & Ireland, some Americans were donating cash to the IRA through NORAID & through collections in clubs & pubs. Is it all right if the killings are happening 3,000 miles away? Or if the impression is given that it's the romantic, "boys in the hills" style of rebel? People were still dying. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Unionist/loyalist, I've no time for them. But is it only when it lands on our doorstep that we care?
                    Arioch, aid me! Blood and souls for Arioch!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      From the late 60's to the early 90's when bombings & shootings were happening in Britain & Ireland, some Americans were donating cash to the IRA through NORAID & through collections in clubs & pubs. Is it all right if the killings are happening 3,000 miles away? Or if the impression is given that it's the romantic, "boys in the hills" style of rebel? People were still dying. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Unionist/loyalist, I've no time for them. But is it only when it lands on our doorstep that we care?
                      No it is not alright if the killings happen 3,000 miles away. By large Americans do not consider the IRA a romantic boys on the hill of rebel. Of course there is probably alot of Americans who don't even known who the IRA is. Sad but true. Anyways, America is an open society so I wouldn't be suprised if the IRA has people here (They most likely do). I want to end by telling you one of my professors was married to a woman from Northern Ireland (she is now an American citizen) she talked to our class one day about her experience growing up in Northern Ireland. It sounded terrible. In the long run she doesn't want to go back.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "A fitting end to the fear-mongering...almost too perfect in terms of the dingbat arguments that others are trying to use to make you vote Republican. Yeah, Bush is the "peace president" - what a fucking joke!

                        When will the lies and xenophobia end? I am coming very close to hating americans. This is exactly the mixture of things that led to the holocaust - a bad economy coupled with a racial/ethnic group to hate and fear."

                        A joke? No worse than the "jokes" being "told" by Kerry-Edwards about the commitments they will make in office. Making, by the way, with full knowledge that if the House and Senate are not on board, not one of their platform issues will see the light of day.

                        And as for the lies and xeonophobia, there should be at least some soul-searching by BOTH sides. The recent "treatment" of Lance Armstrong by both French and German fans is only a recent, visible example, of which there are many more and many more relevant. I don't condone reactions based on hate and fear any more than you do, but before you -hypocritically, I might add - strap on the American hate-bag, you ought to consider the idea that this isn't exactly a narrow, one-way street.

                        "...as an Englishman I feel a bit cynical about Americans' current obsession with terrorism. "

                        I am, and will continue to be, the last person to step up and back up the "intelligence" of middle America (meaning, the majority of average Americans think the IRA is either a baseball statistic or that law that makes things fair for women), but for those that do know, I would argue that we aren't as one-sided or uncaring towards terrorism outside the U.S. borders as you might suggest. I tihnk distinctions are made between the various examples of terrorism that - while not right (or necessarily wrong, for that matter) are telling.

                        There is, implicitly or not, a distinction made between acts of terrorism that are perceived as "internal" and therefore at least in theory preventable by internal political action, and "external" and therefore considered beyond control. Cases in point: there was no 'uproar' following Oklahoma City; there was concern, there was compassion, but there was also an understanding that this was not an international incident. I believe that (wrongfully as it happens) most Americans view the Northern Ireland issue in a similar way, and therefore it isn't so much that we are unconcerned as much as we are under the impression that it is a matter for the British government to handle. Bear in mind that I am purposefully confusing the poliitics here, since I don't believe the average American understands the differences between "England", "Great Britain" and "United Kingdom" (and the polical entities that comprise the latter), and I am very confident that the average American does not know the specific political considerations between Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, and England that led to the violence.

                        Counterpoint is the situation in the Middle East. There is a tremendous amount of support - political and capital - for the Israeli cause, and that has not changed despite the supposedly pro-Arab, pro-Saudi bent of the current administration. Meaning, the U.S. is not ignoring or downplaying the terrorism evident in the Middle East, it is addressing it in the only way it really knows how: cash and arms to the Israeli government.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's interesting that one article is viewed as fact and the other fiction (or, at least, self promotion). I expect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hey,
                            ya should check this one out

                            http://www.thecorporation.com/

                            Oops did I post this in the right thread?
                            umm.. maybe so! :D

                            "One hundred and fifty years ago, the corporation was a relatively insignificant entity. Today, it is a vivid, dramatic and pervasive presence in all our lives. Like the Church, the Monarchy and the Communist Party in other times and places, the corporation is today’s dominant institution. But history humbles dominant institutions. All have been crushed, belittled or absorbed into some new order. The corporation is unlikely to be the first to defy history. In this complex and highly entertaining documentary, Mark Achbar, co-director of the influential and inventive MANUFACTURING CONSENT: NOAM CHOMSKY AND THE MEDIA, teams up with co-director Jennifer Abbott and writer Joel Bakan to examine the far-reaching repercussions of the corporation’s increasing preeminence. Based on Bakan’s book The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power, the film is a timely, critical inquiry that invites CEOs, whistle-blowers, brokers, gurus, spies, players, pawns and pundits on a graphic and engaging quest to reveal the 4corporation’s inner workings, curious history, controversial impacts and possible futures. Featuring illuminating interviews with Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, Howard Zinn and many others, THE CORPORATION charts the spectacular rise of an institution aimed at achieving specific economic goals as it also recounts victories against this apparently invincible force."
                            \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                            Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why second guess an air marshal?

                              If they think the woman that wrote the article was a bit unhinged, so do I. They were actually concerned that she was part of a plot to get the marshals to reveal themselves. She was told to calm down and that the situation was going to be handled, but she did not calm down.

                              The woman was a danger to herself and everyone travelling with her. I would not wish to be locked up in a flying metal tube with fear-mongering assholes like the lady that wrote the article that began this thread.

                              A loose cannon causes chaotic destruction.

                              Comment

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